Ron's Cichlid food?

[Trouser Cough]

So... hypothetically, if anyone were to contract w/ a typical feed mill would that mill also provide you w/ a breakdown of exactly what the ingredients were by order of weight as well as an analysis of the various % of protein, fiber, fat, etc?... or would that be an add'l step done by a third party lab?

More directly, how likely is it that Ron knows what these numbers are and just opts not to publish them?

 

[RD.]

Well, this doesn't get done by guess or by golly. lol The mill has all of the end game numbers before the screw on an extruder even begins to turn.
No different than a feed mills own in house formulas. As an example; Hi-Intensity.pdf (zeiglerfeed.com)

Manufacturers allow themselves a little wiggle room by using terms such as minimum/maximum. As such the crude protein/fat on labels are not typically actual numbers, but the lowest % that a USDA of FDA inspector should find, if/when they check. And they do check at times. Hence 40% on a label, could be more along the lines of 43-44% actual crude protein content found in the food. Same with crude fat, always listed as a minimum value. On the flip side, non-nutrients, such as fiber, moisture (water) and ash, are always listed as maximum values. Pet Food | FDA

That, along with a clear and honest listing of the raw ingredients, allows consumers to make an educated & informed decision prior to parting with their cold hard cash. The pet food industry is highly regulated for safety reasons. Melamine anyone? Melamine Pet Food Recall of 2007 | FDA

These folks don't mess around. Regulators’ Role (aafco.org)


So, my question to you would be, how likely is it that he doesn't know these numbers?

 

[Trouser Cough]

So, my question to you would be, how likely is it that he doesn't know these numbers?

If Ron sources from a mill in the scenario you've described it would appear to be obvious. Be that as it may I'm going to avoid declaring someone guilty before they've had a chance to weigh in.

I've looked in the sack of Ron's Big Boy that I have and as you had suggested his feed is not readily identifiable as having been sourced from manufacturers of the other feeds I have on hand (Ken's, NLS, Natural Waterscapes / Trout Feed, Hikari, etc.).

I've seen several threads on various feeds on this site and none of them have seemed as poignant as this one. The talk of how much wheat or how much potato often seems subjective but now and for the first time in a discussion of nutrition on this site there's a clear indication that there may be very good reason to scrutinize feeds and that maybe, just maybe...some of us are being hoodwinked.

A white paper analysis would be far better than 4 color photo glossy packaging.

 

[JackEmerson]

I've seen several threads on various feeds on this site and none of them have seemed as poignant as this one. The talk of how much wheat or how much potato often seems subjective but now and for the first time in a discussion of nutrition on this site there's a clear indication that there may be very good reason to scrutinize feeds and that maybe, just maybe...some of us are being hoodwinked.

Ha, yes these food threads do seem to draw out the controversy. Was recently reading the old threads, and there are some other good ones: the one about Omega One's "whole fish", Northfin's Ethoxyquin, etc.

I guess the question for me, and perhaps you, is what to do with the bag of Ron's that I purchased? Throw it out? Ask more questions of Ron? etc? What is your plan?

 

[Trouser Cough]

I guess the question for me, and perhaps you, is what to do with the bag of Ron's that I purchased? Throw it out? Ask more questions of Ron? etc? What is your plan?

I've wondered about the same thing as recently as this morning. I think I'll let my fish finish the bag and then I'll be slow to re-order more until I have a better idea of what specifically I'm buying and feeding. Truth be told I do see at least a slight color difference in my Azul Peacocks when I feed Ron's Big Boy. They look a little more slate gray than they do on other feeds but I don't know that that's anything aside from simply different and I can't be 100% certain that it's a result of the feed.

I'm not sure how I missed the fact that Ron's feed doesn't detail nutritional data and I very much appreciate the contributors that helped put a light on the matter. I particularly appreciate the quick and objective data provided by Billy Jack. Odd too as I have a friend that's a USDA inspector that travels the world inspecting facilities to insure that they meet US standards if they're imported and sold here. Dog food labels, etc... I'm all over them but apparently I have a short between the seat and the steering wheel where fish food is concerned and Ron's is not the only example. I've bought repackaged feed off of eBay purported to be NLS broken down from bulk packaging, etc. but the truth of the matter is that I probably don't know for sure what exactly was in that bag.

 

[Ruturaj]

I've heard this comment a lot over the years and I'm not disputing it though I do sometimes wonder about its origin. Sure, fish eat fish but it's also true that an Arowana will eat anything it can harvest out of the brush overhanging the river and as top feeders they're likely to eat a ton of terrestrial stuff, birds, snakes, lizards, spiders, and according to one account I read years ago, apparently some kind of small primate as well.

Fifty years ago I fed beef heart to fish as if it were an awesome idea and I don't recall any of those fish having significant issues w/ diet, digestion, or disposal. Another example is carnisticks. My fish eat bag after bag of the jumbo and they think it's awesome to the point that they'll often prefer it (by far) over Ron's, Ken's, NLS, etc. but the third, fourth and fifth ingredients are wheat flour, brewer's yeast and corn and it heads on from there to potatoes and rice.

I don't have the answer as to terrestrial byproduct efficacy but I have wondered on occasion if the basis for skepticism might be anecdotal logic.

Fatty liver disease is caused by animal proteins in fish. It's complicated, how long was our fish could have lived on different food is almost impossible to answer question.

 

[Ruturaj]

I think a lot of people over complicate things. If my fish like the food and are healthy with good color and proper size, that tells me what I need to know

That's not the full picture though. You can keep it simple just buy northfin or NLS, as simple as that.

 

[RD.]

Fatty liver disease is caused by animal proteins in fish.

Not exactly. FLD in finfish is typically caused by excessive lipids in the diet. In fact, in many of the lower quality farm feeds, the oil/fat used is plant based. In the feed trial in post #42 above, animal protein wasn't the issue, crude fat levels were.

 

[Trouser Cough]

Not exactly. FLD in finfish is typically caused by excessive lipids in the diet. In fact, in many of the lower quality farm feeds, the oil/fat used is plant based. In the feed trial in post #42 above, animal protein wasn't the issue, crude fat levels were.

So what do you feed and do you have a commercial or other relationship w/ that company?

 

[RD.]

I have no relationship with any company. My advice is to do your own research and draw your own conclusions. Plenty of info that can be gleaned from past discussions on this site. Good luck.