My biggest week point in this hobby are the beautiful and rewarding cichlids of the great rift lakes. And one day I will branch out that way but as of now I am 15 years experianced in breeding, keeping, and researching central and south american cichlids and I can tell you most of them have been described ans rediscribed so many times that is not unlikley for them to possibly in the future be described as seperate but as it stands mota + mota = mota. As far as the peacocks it just seems like someone needs to get to africa and start describing. But as stated that my biggest week point so I don't know.
rtm mated with gold mota... is that a hybrid?
- Thread starter ewok
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fish_n_vw - No, it's not just you. I agree it would still be a Parachromis motaguensis, but be an 'aquarium strain' mota ... ie a man made regional hybrid. Remember, the scientific description of hybrid includes same species from differance genetic groupings, ie races. Yes race is used differantly in biology than it is an anthropology. As mentioned, the hobby (at least in new world circles) tends to ignore the racial part of the hybrid deffination, but not all cichlid hobbist ignore this crutial part of it.
Perhaps we should start being specific, ie racial or regional hybrid for same species/differant races (rtm x gold mota, costa rican dovii x nic dovii) ... species hybrid (carpentis x cyano) and genus hybrid (convict x texas) thus covering all bases.
As for a scientist, I've emailed one. Not sure if he will remember me and thus respond (or even if the email is still valid), but trying at least.
Perhaps we should start being specific, ie racial or regional hybrid for same species/differant races (rtm x gold mota, costa rican dovii x nic dovii) ... species hybrid (carpentis x cyano) and genus hybrid (convict x texas) thus covering all bases.
As for a scientist, I've emailed one. Not sure if he will remember me and thus respond (or even if the email is still valid), but trying at least.
Yeah I'm not trying to argue that word hybrid is being raped. I am trying only to say that the end result is still a mota. Once I again I am not on hear to argue but for me I hate the idea of hybrids and this perticular descusion really grabbed me. Because of my background in central and sout american cichlids. Locations are a very important part of trying to get a specific colored fish and I have sought out salvinis from specific locations a few times and can never get them. But I have faith in the scientist who have described these fish and am only pointing out that as there speices name states this is not a hybrid. I would purchase said fish and call it what it is a p. Mota. And I would not be wrong in doing so.
The trouble is when someone else buys the fish (a cross between a mota from one location and a RTM)...thinking that it's a mota...and they breed it with another...and voila... the mess we're in with most of the tank raised fish in the hobby...
Let me rephrase that it is location crossbreeding not speices crossbreeding. The fish is still p. Mota.
fish_n_vw;3560760; said:
True, you wouldn't be wrong in calling it a mota. But it would be wrong to call it a RTM, or a gold mota. And that is the point of the issue. It would be a cross of the two races and probably not look like either. Hence why I would use the term 'aquarium strain mota' for it.
All we are saying is both the deffination of the word hybrid and the specific scientific description of hybrid both state that location crossbreeding is included in the deffination. Hence why it would be a hybrid, but as you stated it would be a location/racial hybrid, not a species hybrid (for now ...
who knows if that won't change when the scientists get a hold of them for indepth and/or DNA studies).
.I'm done you guys have a great opinion and mine will remain the same. Thanks for conversation and I am very pleased to know there are people who are as into the specifics of these fish as me. I still think I'm right and I respect your opinions on this subject. And while I got you on the line do you know from who I might find location specific salvini?
I have enjoyed this thread more than any other that I have read on here
Thanks to all who have given me all of these tidbits to ponder. For the record, I belive that the cross would be a hybrid, just based on my understanding of the terms. Just another example to think about, Tropheus in Tanganyika. Now that they are studying them more, they are splitting them and raising more to species status for some "regional varients", they were ALL at one point considered Tropheus Moorii.