rtm mated with gold mota... is that a hybrid?

[darth pike]

hy·brid (h

br

d)
n. 1. Genetics The offspring of genetically dissimilar parents or stock, especially the offspring produced by breeding plants or animals of different varieties, species, or races.
2. a. Something of mixed origin or composition, such as a word whose elements are derived from different languages.
b. Something having two kinds of components that produce the same or similar results, such as a vehicle powered by both an electric motor and an internal combustion engine as sources of power for the drive train.

I don't know, maybe becuase I was an English major in school ... so I kind of have to go with the scientific deffination of the term. The motas are differant races as described by biology, thus would be hybrids as described by it's biological deffination. If you agree that motas are indeed a species as described by scientific taxon, then you would have to agree with that same description that says the two races would be a hybrid. Logic 102.

 

[Toby_H]

If “crossing species” were the definition of a hybrid, that would be the difinition of the word. But it’s not... They said “genetic dissimilarity” and then gave examples of what genetic dissimilarity is, including a couple of potential same species crosses that results in a hybrid…


In the process of classifying or reclassifying, scientists have suggested that enough genetic similarity is in RTM & GM to qualify as the same species. They have not suggested that they are genetically similar enough to be one race or one variant.

 

[oHsNaP1337]

In the process of classifying or reclassifying, scientists have suggested that enough genetic similarity is in RTM & GM to qualify as the same species. They have not suggested that they are genetically similar enough to be one race or one variant.

"Red Tiger" and "Gold" is the common names created by the fish keeping community to differentiate the two colors, not the scientific community. You keep referring to the red and gold as two "races" which they are not, when you call one of them a race, you are basically calling one of them a subspecies, which neither one has been classified as yet.

 

[darth pike]

Race and subspecies are completely differant words with totally differant meanings. They are not interchangable.

 

[fish_n_vw]

I don't know, maybe becuase I was an English major in school ... so I kind of have to go with the scientific deffination of the term. The motas are differant races as described by biology, thus would be hybrids as described by it's biological deffination. If you agree that motas are indeed a species as described by scientific taxon, then you would have to agree with that same description that says the two races would be a hybrid. Logic 102.

Its nice to see there is a a person who majors in english. So you will be able to distinguish all the faults of our porrly put together language. As for me I still stand by the science and fact behind a hybrid would give a scientific diffrence between the two contributing entities. And they end result is still scientific in its description and the same as both contributing parties. So how is this a hybrid. And as far as scientist saying there is enough difrence to describe them as races, show me the paper work. I will bet you cant. Because science does not distinguish the diffrence. I would think that the unarguable fact that mota + mota = mota would be a much more simple concept to grasp. I think that if there was enough difrence between the two variants of the SAME FISH. Those samrt scientist guys that do the field and lab work would have categorized it as so. No such categorizing has taken place. So you benders and twisters of the english language you are wrong. As many ways as you want to use our faulted language to you advantage you can not breed to of the scientifically same things and call it a hybrid.

I guess the other option and the only other logical option is that in the faulted world of the english language everything is a hybrid. This is the ONLY other logical explenation.

*edit* after reading back through my post I have to apoligize for the typos and sounding like a jerk. Its late on Saturday night and I've been drinking. I hope you can get my drift and twist it into a nicer way of saying it (seems there is experiance in the twisting department) have a great night.

 

[BigPic]

And as far as scientist saying there is enough difrence to describe them as races, show me the paper work. I will bet you cant.

In the intrest of learning more about the Motas myself, can you provide that same "paper work" to back up the claim that a mota is a mota is a mota? I have never read the paper regarding the classification of Parachromis Motaguensis, but, do they include more than one or two collection locations for the samples? The Scientific classification is normally based on a few specimens from either a single collection point or a few specimens from multiple colleciton points. Was "Rio Blanco" included in the original description of Parachromis Motaguensis? If you want to get down to it, maybe there has been NO work done with the Parachromis from "Rio Blanco" and it is infact a new undescribed species.

hy·brid (hbrd)
n. 1. Genetics The offspring of genetically dissimilar parents or stock, especially the offspring produced by breeding plants or animals of different varieties, species, or races

 

[dogofwar]

From the Cichlid Room Companion (www.cichlidae.com):

Parachromis motaguensis (Günther, 1866)

Curator: Juan Miguel Artigas Azas. Last updated on 24-Dec-2007.​

Original description as Heros motaguensis:

• Günther, Albert; 1867; "On the fishes of the states of Central America, founded upon specimens collected in fresh and marine waters of various parts of that country by Messrs. Salvin and Godman and Capt. J. M. Dow"; Proceedings of the Zoological Society of London; pp. 600-604.

Type locality: Río Motagua, Guatemala (Atlantic Slope).
Inhabited countries: Belize (native), Guatemala (native), Honduras (native), El Salvador (native).
Conservation: Parachromis motaguensis is not evaluated by the International Union for the Conservation of Nature in the IUCN Red List of Threatened Species (2008).

 

[fish_n_vw]

Well I don't see rio blanco in the above discription. I can take that as accurate in the trust that it is unedited for the perticular post and under the same respect I would give anyone else in a debate. Is rio blanco the only collection location of the gold viriaty?

 

[BigPic]

Thanks Matt Still not the original description though LOL

 

[oHsNaP1337]

Race and subspecies are completely differant words with totally differant meanings. They are not interchangable.

Your statement is incorrect....


Subspecies
(n.)
A group somewhat less distinct than species usually are, but based on characters more important than those which characterize ordinary varieties; often, a geographical variety or race.


Subspecies - Noun
1. (biology) a taxonomic group that is a division of a species; usually arises as a consequence of geographical isolation within a species.
(synonym) race
(hypernym) taxonomic group, taxonomic category, taxon
(classification) biology, biological science


Just in case some people don't know what (Synonym) means, here is the definition....

Synonym (Syn·o·nym)- n.

1. A word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another word or other words in a language.
2. A word or an expression that serves as a figurative or symbolic substitute for another.
3. Biology. A scientific name of an organism or of a taxonomic group that has been superseded by another name at the same rank.