salt and temp vs ich

[BraveheartCalif]

In your effort to discredit you actually supported the evidence i put forth. Thank you

But i can also say re: some of your personal opinions are nothing but opinionated wranglings.
The salt club has every right to express there opinions.

And those of us who oppose the use of salt in most tropicals have the right as well to express our calm and calculated opinions. As opposed to the salt supporters who are all upset and stressed over this topic. Perhaps your BP is too high and its time to cut out the salt of your diets too.

 

[kyryah]

In your effort to discredit you actually supported the evidence i put forth. Thank you

How in the world have you drawn this conclusion? I found water_baby83's post to be much clearer and more informative than yours, and in direct opposition, not support of your claims.

But i can also say re: some of your personal opinions are nothing but opinionated wranglings.
The salt club has every right to express there opinions.

And those of us who oppose the use of salt in most tropicals have the right as well to express our calm and calculated opinions. As opposed to the salt supporters who are all upset and stressed over this topic. Perhaps your BP is too high and its time to cut out the salt of your diets too.

The only person I have seen insult anyone else is you. How does that equate to cool and calm?

Wow. Just wow. Talk about a thread gone wild.

Kristina

 

[~ocean]

well ich is gone with salt... i'm happy, but I guess it proves salt can work!

 

[BraveheartCalif]

This is going to be my last post on this thread. My intention from the beginning was to save fish; by appealing to those who prescribe salt as a common cure. And discuss the other (side) affects of salt rather than the classic discussion about the osmotic affect that salt has in fish. And it appears that i came off passionate to some and abrasive to others. So therefore this is my attempt to hit the reset button. In light of my previous posts the last data point id like everyone to consider in regards to using salt. Is the topic of salt resistant parasites in the hobby that are clearly resistant to salt but appear now to be resistant to some older fish meds as well. In the good ol days we would increase the osmotic pressure by adding salt and dip our prized fish which resulted with the flukes falling off. These days doing salt dips for these resistant types of ich doesn't work. So its common place that increased doses are used in a dip salt concentrate which often leaves fish with burnt gills while many times they die from gill damage. And im sure there are several reasons though im sure not exhaustive. To explain perhaps why there are salt resisistant types of parasites. One might consider is the fish meal, which is high to extremely high in sodium these days which make up our fish feed (pellets) Ive done typical analysis on these feeds and even hikari puts salt in there feeds! Just like the american diet is high in sodium our fish also it would seem may have a diet to high in sodium. This would be a great thesis paper for someone to do. Another is feeder fish that are bred and raised with salt added to the water like a tonic. To feeding salt water fish filets to freshwater fish. To perhaps hobbyists using salt as a tonic in there tanks in low doses which over time seems to be a host of breeding resistant types of bugs. Then that hobbyist sells or trades this fish with another hobbyist. Places this host fish into a new tank which can be infected within days or weeks. So just like in the real world we have flu resistant virus's like the h1n1 and other drugs like good ol penicillin that are not working like they used too. Common sense to me says when you go to the doctor when you are sick you get meds. If your dog or cat (or farm animal) were sick you would have a vet medicate them. So why are fish excluded? You would think that in this day and age, With all of the resistant pathogens like flu and ebola. That the hobbyist would apply this same vigilance to there fish instead of throwing the common aspirin (salt) at the solution at the first signs of trouble. Many times these eloba (what i call them) types of diseases hit so hard and fast in the tank. That throwing salt in the mix as the 1st like of defense wastes precious time. As the hobbyists wrings his hands looking for results as the days pass by and sees no signs of relief. He changes his course of action on using a med but by the time the disease has taken hold and is even out of the reach of the strongest pharm grade meds. Which in the end wipes out the entire tank, I know this scenario because ive been there to many times to count. And i know many breeders including one today who just emailed me. Who said this:

"Try the experiment like i did, set up two identical aquariums. Add salt to one of them, and none to the other. See how long the 3.0 sodium tank lasts before you have a major fish wipe out. I did this experiment in the salted tanks... all the fish died. These were tough African cichlids that died mind you"

So i hope this is an interesting read whether you agree or disagree with my view on salt. But i want to leave this thread as friend to everyone and especially to those who i may have upset accidentally.

Cheers,
Erik

 

[kyryah]

I want to take your research attempts seriously. I cannot make head nor tail of what you are saying. Your punctuation is an erratic, long paragraph. It is difficult for me to read and understand.

"What you call them" does NOT equate SCIENTIFIC research to me. I can slap a name on anything - that does not make me an expert.


I make my own fish food. I do not expect the previous hobbiest to have done my work for me - hence why I quarantine.

I don't KNOW what the answer you are looking for is. The only logical explanation for your argument is that you want people to step forward and say, without a doubt, that SALT killed their fish.

Where is your proof? Again, not caring whether my net handle is "Lupin" or not, I want to see where you get off saying that salt kills fish, hands down.

Kristina

 

[MonsterMinis]

*pets Lupin*

that was prolly the worst thread hijack I've seen... my head almost exploded I think.

Good to know your Fish are doing better Ocean

"Try the experiment like i did, set up two identical aquariums. Add salt to one of them, and none to the other. See how long the 3.0 sodium tank lasts before you have a major fish wipe out. I did this experiment in the salted tanks... all the fish died. These were tough African cichlids that died mind you"

Please tell me that doesn't mean 3.0 specific gravity...

 

[Ash]

You also have to remeber not every person just puts salt in their home aquariums to do it. They also dont use salt as a fix "all" but for certian parasites. In my personal experience I have more problems with med's then I do with salt. Salt has done nothing but wonders for my tank. However if I have a fish with a gash or cotton mouth I am not going to treat that with salt (I actually like erythromycin for that, it works well in my experience). If my tanks ever get certian types of worms, salt is not what I go for. I dont use salt on all parasites either, just some. However if Ich is in my tank, salt is always my first choice over a med. Salt has always worked for me, my boyfriend and outside of your post I really haven't met anyone that has had a problem with salt. I have never had a problem. If someone were to increase the salt so high in content to damage the fish, they probably should not be keeping fish or educate themselves. I used an ich med once (cant remember the name just know it was blue) and it did nothing for my tank, I lost the fish (except one) anyways. With that being said I did not treat that tank first with salt, I went straight to the med. Ontop of that when I was looking for Ich med's I couldn't find one that was safe for inverts and scaless fish, which is a problem when you own scaless fish. I also dont like dumping med's in my tank if I dont need to. This is my own personal experience and my own opinion on it. As for an earlyer statment that aquaculture farms dont use salt, I have been to many and there are farms that do use salt. There are also many aquariums that use both fresh (on saltwater fish) and salt (on freshwater fish) baths on different fish (I work at one) and they dont have problems. A lot of it has to do with how the owner takes care of the fish, how they dose, tank paramaters, fish condition, etc. I wouldn't say someone should just put salt in their aquarium to do it, low dose or not. A freshwater fish lives in freshwater not salty water, there is no need to put it in for no reason. You can I doubt it will hurt them I just dont see the need personally. If a fish couldnt tolerate influx in salinity level at all then they I dont think many fish would be around. A low level salt bath to treat ich should be fine if done properly. I personally would only use it if I had a reason to, but I wouldn't just go dumping it in for no reason. It's just like people med's work great for some and not great for others. Some people avoid taking them at all costs while others go to a doctor for meds at every little ache. Its experience and opinion. What works for one may not work for another. I am just simply stating my opinion, own experience etc. Just as you are. It's always good to have more then one view on something and it's always intresting to see other peoples different views and opinions. To each their own =]

 

[Reel Addiction]

 

[~ocean]

well my plants survived too, and are actually flourishing!

 

[dataguru]

The basic phyhsiology of freshwater fish is their blood is at about .9% solute concentration. As a result, water is always trying to get inside the fish (osmosis) and solutes try to get out of the fish (diffusion). They pee about 1/3 of their body weight per day to excrete excess fluids.

this statement is just not accurate:
Water follows salt, so u add salt, blood pressure rises in the ventral and dorsal aortic Cardiovascular system of the tropical fish.

if water follows salt, then adding salt to the water would tend to reduce the osmotic pressure of water wanting to get into the fish and would reduce the amount of solutes wanting to get out of the fish. not the other way around.