Sand and young rays.

[Miles]

German Breeders are magical like Ligers

 

[Miles]

While personally for anyhting but new born rays I dont think the type of sand matters. But if you look at those pics posted, the sandblasting sand is MUCH more coarse then the aquarium sand.

Yeah I noticed the first 2 sands have sharp/course/porous granules while the 3rd sand seems to have much more consistently smooth granules.. how strange?

The 2nd sand even has super tiny little particles in it..

 

[Miles]

And in the end, it’s down to common sense.
Just look at rays and where they live/come from. The Amazon river system.
Why is the river so brown and dark? Because it’s filled with millions open millions of tiny tiny particles. Like silica dust.

So there probably wouldn’t be any rays left in the wild, if they really did die from fine sand or small particles.

Again, this is just common sense.

Common Sense would tell you that if a ray was irritated by anything in the wild it could just 'vacate the area'... and in a glass box - they do not have that option.

Very poor argument ... Would be like comparing humans to rays.. or cichlids to rays.. or trying to say ammonia isn't toxic to rays..

 

[andersp90]

Not a sand problem well loses with sand or no loses without sand. Whats your rational for saying not a sand problem? It's quite easy to understand nothing else changed except removing the sand. Something more rational would maybe be they are using a different type of sand in Germany then I was using or maybe not but to just assume it was something else besides the sand is not having an open mind.

Yhea you only removed the sand. But as we both know, fine sand can compact. This can lead to an explosion of bacteria and gases.

So, when you removed the sand, you could have removed the source of the problem.

Also, try and go to a german ray forum. Most of the baby rays i have seen there have been on normal and fine sand. And why would they do this if 40% of their pups would die from it?

 

[Miles]

Using the word 'fine sand' is very generic and their are many different styles of sand available..

To say the sand in europe is the same as the sand we are using here, or the same sand we are discussing, is probably not a wise assumption.

 

[andersp90]

Common Sense would tell you that if a ray was irritated by anything in the wild it could just 'vacate the area'... and in a glass box - they do not have that option.

Very poor argument ... Would be like comparing humans to rays.. or cichlids to rays.. or trying to say ammonia isn't toxic to rays..

I have never said that ammonia wasent toxic to rays.

When cichlids can clean their fragile gills in it without any trubble, why would it hurt or even kill a ray? An animal that is made to live on sand?

Also, if you look at the 4 prics you will se that there are crude grians in all 4 sampels.

Now, the silica grains that is shown in that pic (first pic) is 3 times the size of the rest of the samples/grains. Bigger grains are more crude, while small grains are less. Take some finer sandblastingsand, and you will get the same result as pic 3 and 4.

Beacuse the sandblastingsand and the expensive "river sand" comes from the same Danish sand-quarry.

 

[Gr8KarmaSF]

Lets keep this MATURE DISCUSSION going to help the hobby and not get this thread closed like the last one....

 

[Miles]

uh I believe I have refrained from any infraction based materials in the last thread too not the one calling others stupid or idiotic

<- been good

 

[andersp90]

Using the word 'fine sand' is very generic and their are many different styles of sand available..

To say the sand in europe is the same as the sand we are using here, or the same sand we are discussing, is probably not a wise assumption.

Well i cant argue against that logic. But it would really surprice me if the sand grains in the US looked any diffrent. The leves of silica is almost the same anyway.

But ok, lets say that fine sand can kill rays. And they can just move away from "bad" areas with killer-sand in the wild, and that this is why they survive.

Sounds very strange as the river bed dosent change for every meter of river bed. But ok.

And lets say that it really is the sand that is killing the baby rays.

Can you explain to me, how it kills them?

And remember that rays have been living on sand since the age of the dinosaurs (and even before). one would think that they would have found a way around the "killer-sand" problem during all that time.........

 

[Gr8KarmaSF]

uh I believe I have refrained from any infraction based materials in the last thread too not the one calling others stupid or idiotic

<- been good