Scarlet Pink Jack Dempseys

[straitjacketstar]

As stated by someone earlier, the JD's seen in stores today are quite imbred/overbred JD's resulting in something quite dissimilar from the looks of a wild jack... the exact same as you see with convicts. Compare a wild convict to the convicts in stores and they look quite different.

This was not the point to get across. The inbred/overly bred JD is obvious and can happen with a pure strain over decades of breeding.
The point is that what we have in the hobby and what you think are all "insert-genus-here" octofasciata are not.
Take, for example, three groups of dempsey from the wild, each from a different area and they all turn out to be different species. But before knowing these thre groups are different species say someone crosses them all and distributes them. So now these offspring of these offspring of the offspring of those fish are not R. octofasciata, they're simply Rocio hybrids.
Like cons. Lots of people have cons. Not many peole have Amatitlania nigrofaciatus. They're mostly just Amatitlania hybrids.

 

[teqvet]

This was not the point to get across. The inbred/overly bred JD is obvious and can happen with a pure strain over decades of breeding.
The point is that what we have in the hobby and what you think are all "insert-genus-here" octofasciata are not.
Take, for example, three groups of dempsey from the wild, each from a different area and they all turn out to be different species. But before knowing these thre groups are different species say someone crosses them all and distributes them. So now these offspring of these offspring of the offspring of those fish are not R. octofasciata, they're simply Rocio hybrids.
Like cons. Lots of people have cons. Not many peole have Amatitlania nigrofaciatus. They're mostly just Amatitlania hybrids.

I wasn't trying to make that a main point or even a focal point but a comparison that the jacks we see in the stores today are mostly hybrids, like the cons, which is what you just said? Or am I misunderstanding you there?

So what I am understanding from what you have said is we would technically have 4 types of "known" JD's in the hobby? Wild jacks, hybrid jacks, gold/pink/leucistic(whatever these are supposed to be called) and electric blue jacks?

thanks

 

[straitjacketstar]

I wasn't trying to make that a main point or even a focal point

Nor was I, I was simply trying to make sure you understood what it was I said.

but a comparison that the jacks we see in the stores today are mostly hybrids, like the cons, which is what you just said?

That is what I said.

As stated by someone earlier, the JD's seen in stores today are quite imbred/overbred JD's resulting in something quite dissimilar from the looks of a wild jack... the exact same as you see with convicts. Compare a wild convict to the convicts in stores and they look quite different.

If "imbred/overbred" is what you meant by hybrid then yes, I now understand what it is you're saying.

So what I am understanding from what you have said is we would technically have 4 types of "known" JD's in the hobby? Wild jacks, hybrid jacks, gold/pink/leucistic(whatever these are supposed to be called) and electric blue jacks?

In the hobby we have the hybrid TR JD, gold/pink/xanthic/leucistic, EBJD. Some folks have found pure strain jack dempseys. There are some folks here and the UK who have found access to true R. octofasciata from Cenote Escondido and I'm sure others have managed to get their hands on pure Rocio sp. so would I consider them in the hobby? Yes.
Whether you think that makes 4 types of JD's is up to you.
To me there are two kinds. Hybrid TR jacks (anything other than R. octo, R. gemmata, R. ocotal) and pure Jacks (R. octo, R. gemmata, R. ocotal).

 

[teqvet]

To me there are two kinds. Hybrid TR jacks (anything other than R. octo, R. gemmata, R. ocotal) and pure Jacks (R. octo, R. gemmata, R. ocotal).

Everything else you said makes sense and I agree 100% with you. The part I left quoted is what I am trying to find more on and learn. Where/how do I come upon this info? It seems these name changes have occurred fairly recently, in regards to no longer being classified under cichlasoma(sp)?

You were saying the true jack (or the true scientific species) comes from cenote escondido? What sites do you gather this type of info from?

Thanks

 

[travis2k]

pure Jacks (R. octo, R. gemmata, R. ocotal).

?? Sorry if Im a little slow on the pick up... There is more than one species of jack dempsey?

Are thesethe different color morphs? regionaly variants that are nearly identical? or the the three original species that were bred to create what we see in LFS?

I had never heard of any other than R. Octo

 

[straitjacketstar]

Everything else you said makes sense and I agree 100% with you. The part I left quoted is what I am trying to find more on and learn. Where/how do I come upon this info? It seems these name changes have occurred fairly recently, in regards to no longer being classified under cichlasoma(sp)?

You were saying the true jack (or the true scientific species) comes from cenote escondido? What sites do you gather this type of info from?

Thanks

The revision of cons from Cryptoheros to Amatitlania and then split into 4 or 5 species and 'Archocentrus'/'Cichlasoma' octofasciatus into Rocio and then split into 3 different species occured in 2007, so yes, it was recent.
Cenote Escondido is one location R. octo can be found in, they can be found elsewhere.
I had the revision paper downloaded on my computer. I can't seem to access it now as I've tried sending it to other people. You can find it on cichlidae.com but I believe you might have to pay to download it.

 

[teqvet]

The revision of cons from Cryptoheros to Amatitlania and then split into 4 or 5 species and 'Archocentrus'/'Cichlasoma' octofasciatus into Rocio and then split into 3 different species occured in 2007, so yes, it was recent.
Cenote Escondido is one location R. octo can be found in, they can be found elsewhere.
I had the revision paper downloaded on my computer. I can't seem to access it now as I've tried sending it to other people. You can find it on cichlidae.com but I believe you might have to pay to download it.

Ah ok, that's why I couldn't find anything. I've been to that site once or twice before I think.

 

[AmazonAngel]

Common names are not scientific so they can be whatever you want them to be. Someone find an academic source that lists the "correct" common names and I will go by them otherwise lets stop this stupid debate

 

[AmazonAngel]

In the mean time I will enjoy watching my beautiful pink jack dempseys!!

 

[teqvet]

Common names are not scientific so they can be whatever you want them to be. Someone find an academic source that lists the "correct" common names and I will go by them otherwise lets stop this stupid debate

Common names should be kept uniform to keep some form of uniformity in the hobby. I'm sorry you think it's a stupid debate but you started the thread and I think there has been a lot of good info in it. I have learned that gold and pink are referred to as a leucistic dempsey. I've also learned a bit from Strait.

So I definitely do not think this post is/was stupid and I don't think it's a debate. How else are we supposed to learn about anything if we don't question things?