Scarlet Pink Jack Dempseys

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Soto reclassified Archocentrius recently and until last year all Rocio (jacks) and Amatitlania (convicts) were considered the same species, We now know that Rocio (jacks) is comprised of 3 species and Amatitlania (convicts) are now 4 species so we must consider all the the jacks and convicts in the hobby as hybrids unless they have a collection location. They have been crossed thought the years and I doubt any of them are pure. What ever common name stores invent to sell fish are BS, they are meaningless. Use the latin. As far as color morphs go, Rocio and Amatitlantia have a wide distribution through Southern Mexico, Belize, Guatamala and Honduras with many different races thoughout there distribution ranges. Every river the fish are a little different than the other. Wild Rocio can range from various shades and combinations of Blue/purple/red/pink and brown in many combinations, Some wild races have a lot of red in them especially the females, I have had wild female jacks with as much red as a salvini. The only colors of Rocio are the wild type, Electric Blue and Zanthic (Gold). Call them what ever you want, but don't sell them as pink jacks and not expect someone to call you out on them when they turn out normal. Ken
 
The paper describing the new classification of Rocio is posted in the scientific journal Zootaxa by Juan Schmitter-Soto, if you have access to journals.

I agree with Ken on all points except that the "gold" JD is leucistic not xanthic (Zanthic as Ken wrote). Leucism is the reduction in all pigment types (hence why these jacks are quite bland) while xanthism is an overproduction of yellow coloration.
 
fishfarm;2911977; said:
Soto reclassified Archocentrius recently and until last year all Rocio (jacks) and Amatitlania (convicts) were considered the same species, We now know that Rocio (jacks) is comprised of 3 species and Amatitlania (convicts) are now 4 species so we must consider all the the jacks and convicts in the hobby as hybrids unless they have a collection location. They have been crossed thought the years and I doubt any of them are pure. What ever common name stores invent to sell fish are BS, they are meaningless. Use the latin. As far as color morphs go, Rocio and Amatitlantia have a wide distribution through Southern Mexico, Belize, Guatamala and Honduras with many different races thoughout there distribution ranges. Every river the fish are a little different than the other. Wild Rocio can range from various shades and combinations of Blue/purple/red/pink and brown in many combinations, Some wild races have a lot of red in them especially the females, I have had wild female jacks with as much red as a salvini. The only colors of Rocio are the wild type, Electric Blue and Zanthic (Gold). Call them what ever you want, but don't sell them as pink jacks and not expect someone to call you out on them when they turn out normal. Ken


Great to know Ken! That confirms a lot of what I have read.

Modest_Man;2912002; said:
The paper describing the new classification of Rocio is posted in the scientific journal Zootaxa by Juan Schmitter-Soto, if you have access to journals.

I agree with Ken on all points except that the "gold" JD is leucistic not xanthic (Zanthic as Ken wrote). Leucism is the reduction in all pigment types (hence why these jacks are quite bland) while xanthism is an overproduction of yellow coloration.

And thanks for the education MM. I had never heard of the term leucistic until this thread.
 
I started this thread so I am obvioulsy dont think the thread is stupid; I think the debate on which common name to use is stupid. I dont want the thread to end its interesting but common names are not official and they never will be.
 
ok well we will call them by the correct hobby "common name" as they are called jack dempsey's or common type..... your fish are nice yes they have a pink tint but they are by no means special genetic type dempseys in wich a special name would indicate.... the color phase names are meaningful...... i could call your fish a strawberry jack or whatever made me happy that doesnt mean its in a new group if we all went and catagorized fish by color variation then the order forms on the lfs lists would look like phone books
 
Ya there is an endless number of common names already in existence and a lot of them have to do with color. The red forehead and belly are caused by an inherited gene just like any other gene (like skin or hair color in humans) ; it is probably not even recessive because the whole brood had red foreheads and bellies. So yes it is a genetic difference
 
I am a female homosapien scientifically, and white skinned brown haired human commonly. My skin and hair color are caused by genetics just like my fish. It is an extremely well known and simple fact
 
Every detail in an organism is genetically caused… so yes I fully agree the red/pink tones to your fish are caused by genetics… but that does not make it special genetic mutation like leucism…

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I’ve owned/bred many Dempseys that had a red/pink base tone beneath their other more normal coloration… It’s not all that uncommon… I also do not find it to strongly carry down to their offspring… I’ve also bred two Dempseys that did not have that coloration yet found a portion of their offspring to have it… I’ve also seen it come and go over time on the same fish…

I’m not going to make random speculations as to why the above is true, but based on years of raising/breeding Dempseys that is what I’ve learned…
 
I know almost everything is caused by genetics (except mutations etc) but other people obviosly dont know that if you read what they are typing
 
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