So CRUEL!!!!!

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
aaronb said:
See there again. You look up to that person. You have to put down everyone else on the entire forum as knowing not as much. You don't know what every other person on this forum knows or doesn't know. Stop looking down on people. It's counterproductive.


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LOL, I'm not looking down on ANYONE. Ask anyone on this forum, and for the record, I know almost ALL the active members.
 
aaronb said:
It sucks to see a fish like that. Is this more cruel than the people that keep bumblebee groupers in freshwater though?
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This is a HUGE discussion probably not best for this thread. BB groupers are bread in fresh water as food fish. That's where the whole freshwater grouper thing came from. FYI, Several salt water fishes have naturally adapted to fresh. Its a huge huge huge topic of debate and takes allot of nuanced detail. Another time maybe.
 
MyGiants said:
I agree there are lots of fish that should not be sold in the trade fresh and salt but they are. Just like Redtail Catfish should not be sold cause they get to big in a short time.
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I don't think there is anything wrong with selling large tank buster fish IMHO I think there is allot wrong with them not being properly cared for or housed. Its like saying no one should sell dogs because there are so many strays and poor owners out there. We on this site are definitely the minority but that doesn't make it wrong or immoral to sell them just to do it under the right pretenses is all.
 
aaronb said:
See there again. You look up to that person. You have to put down everyone else on the entire forum as knowing not as much. You don't know what every other person on this forum knows or doesn't know. Stop looking down on people. It's counterproductive.


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I'm sorry but most people who keep brackish or salt water fish in fresh mess up pretty much everything else. Its not salinity or lack there of that kills of most "freshwater" morays. 9/10 times its temp. And so it goes for the unique or special conditions that each and every one of those fish(brackish) has. It goes like this, people say you can keep a salt water fish in fresh except it will only live _ long and _ is usually 3-6 months then when you hit 18 months they are like well you can't keep it for 3 years then when you hit that bench mark they are like well it will die eventually in an aquarium that is fresh. FYI at the 3 year mark most of these fish in question are adult or atleast sexually mature. My mono sebaes are trying to spawn having been raised in fresh... what better testament to success is there than that.

I'm sorry but I've mad that no one recognizes success, when I bought the monos people on here said no you'll kill them then a VERY vetran member on these forums linked me a pick of his FW young adult sebae mono collection.

Simple general reason for why most people kill brackish and salt water fish in fresh is under-filtration. Another one is heat. The typical 72-78 degree tank is too cold for many of these fish that live in extremely warm waters(the whole they stop eating in fresh is usually remedied at 82 degrees). You think a FW ray puts out allot well probably double that ammonia per lbs of the fish. That isn't universal but its a good basis for you to understand one reason most even advanced keepers struggle with them.

I'm not about to say hey everyone can keep these brackish fish in fresh but proper consideration its probably more than possible if the fish occurs in fresh at some point naturally. I'm not saying toss a clown fish in your community tank. That's a horrible idea. But you get where I'm going with this. I don't recommend Brackish in fresh, heck most people even on these forums struggle to properly care for what they have the demands of a brackish fish in fresh are higher for sure but it isn't torture and it isn't impossible when done right.

If you need a more nuanced and itemized approach to how I've kept many different brackish fish in fresh PM me.
 
kamikaziechameleon said:
I'm sorry but most people who keep brackish or salt water fish in fresh mess up pretty much everything else. Its not salinity or lack there of that kills of most "freshwater" morays. 9/10 times its temp. And so it goes for the unique or special conditions that each and every one of those fish(brackish) has. It goes like this, people say you can keep a salt water fish in fresh except it will only live _ long and _ is usually 3-6 months then when you hit 18 months they are like well you can't keep it for 3 years then when you hit that bench mark they are like well it will die eventually in an aquarium that is fresh. FYI at the 3 year mark most of these fish in question are adult or atleast sexually mature. My mono sebaes are trying to spawn having been raised in fresh... what better testament to success is there than that.

I'm sorry but I've mad that no one recognizes success, when I bought the monos people on here said no you'll kill them then a VERY vetran member on these forums linked me a pick of his FW young adult sebae mono collection.

Simple general reason for why most people kill brackish and salt water fish in fresh is under-filtration. Another one is heat. The typical 72-78 degree tank is too cold for many of these fish that live in extremely warm waters(the whole they stop eating in fresh is usually remedied at 82 degrees). You think a FW ray puts out allot well probably double that ammonia per lbs of the fish. That isn't universal but its a good basis for you to understand one reason most even advanced keepers struggle with them.

I'm not about to say hey everyone can keep these brackish fish in fresh but proper consideration its probably more than possible if the fish occurs in fresh at some point naturally. I'm not saying toss a clown fish in your community tank. That's a horrible idea. But you get where I'm going with this. I don't recommend Brackish in fresh, heck most people even on these forums struggle to properly care for what they have the demands of a brackish fish in fresh are higher for sure but it isn't torture and it isn't impossible when done right.

If you need a more nuanced and itemized approach to how I've kept many different brackish fish in fresh PM me.
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I'm not saying you can't keep a saltwater or brackish fish in freshwater. I'm just saying just because a fish will survive in certain conditions doesn't mean they're good for the fish. You could say that for any living thing though. If something occurs in a living things natural living area there's probably a good chance they need it. That's why RO water is bad for any fish for example, because it removes everything out of the water.


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kamikaziechameleon said:
I don't think there is anything wrong with selling large tank buster fish IMHO I think there is allot wrong with them not being properly cared for or housed. Its like saying no one should sell dogs because there are so many strays and poor owners out there. We on this site are definitely the minority but that doesn't make it wrong or immoral to sell them just to do it under the right pretenses is all.
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Fair point but like some dogs they are illegal to breed and own here in england its illegal to own a pitbull for example because its deemed as an aggressive animal and very unpredictable, i dont think the grouper should be sold as it grows much too large
 
Far2lively said:
Fair point but like some dogs they are illegal to breed and own here in england its illegal to own a pitbull for example because its deemed as an aggressive animal and very unpredictable, i dont think the grouper should be sold as it grows much too large
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Funny cause stiffordshire terrior lineage comes from England, sux bro cause most pits are sweetharts,

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