so what does a rosequeen consist of?

[fishguts]

Clear something up a bit for me here. Are you saying that a Rose Queen doesn't consist any Red Devil or Midas? So what does that have anything to do with a Trimac X Snook trying to pair up with a Rose Queen? It doesn't prove anything about a Rose Queen not being mix consisting a Red Devil/Midas.
If you did find something that is actually legitimate facts that it doesn't contain any Red Devil/Midas. Please educate me as I would like to know about Rose Queen.
FYI - if a female Rose Queen is fertile, male Rose Queen can very much be fertile. Now you wonder why it isn't the same as BP? Well...BP basically have non to very little quality to it, so breeders sterile the male in order to avoid breeding. In return, they get more customers instead of fish hobbyist would just be breeding them.

i can clear it up pretty easy. midas and red devil mixes are all over your fish stores sell them because its hard to get one or the other pure in less ordered from someone reputable. that mix breeds all time in aquaria. yes most rosequeen males are sterile so that there should tell you its not a rd midas. where do you get your information? you said if female rq are fertile then males also? i get my information from flowerhornusa.com whos said most males are sterile. my buddy currently has a sterile male.

 

[fishguts]

It's a mix between synspilum and labiatus. I have a 9-10" female rose queen that I raised from 1" and it's one of my favorite fish. Amazing color, big nuchal hump, yellow eyes, and great personality. They look just like synspilums until 3-4" then they start looking amphilophus and peel into their true color. Anybody talking crap about the strain is just an IDIOT that knows nothing about the hobby.

thanks for the correct awnser and yes i like them alot as well.

 

[BIG_ONE]

i can clear it up pretty easy. midas and red devil mixes are all over your fish stores sell them because its hard to get one or the other pure in less ordered from someone reputable. that mix breeds all time in aquaria. yes most rosequeen males are sterile so that there should tell you its not a rd midas. where do you get your information? you said if female rq are fertile then males also? i get my information from flowerhornusa.com whos said most males are sterile. my buddy currently has a sterile male.

I get my information from my buddy who owns a few fertile male rose queen for that matter of fact. It works the same one way or around just like BP, KKP, and Mammon. Males gets sterile so hobbyist won't be able to breed them, therefore breeders would keep their customers coming for them. Your right, most of them are sterile...but because breeders sterile them. The chance of finding a fertile male rose queen is the same as finding a fertile male BP, KKP, or Mammon. You can search rose queen, BP, KKP, and Mammon anywhere online. They will say that males are sterile and only females are fertile. But that's only true for the customers. Everything is work under the table by the breeder, few to little known anything about it. Also has been done with higher quality flowerhorns too. And the only reason is, they want to keep their line of fish.
And if I'm not mistaken, a labiatus is a Red Devil. Amphilophus can be Red Devil or Midas.

 

[FishingOut]

I get my information from my buddy who owns a few fertile male rose queen for that matter of fact. It works the same one way or around just like BP, KKP, and Mammon. Males gets sterile so hobbyist won't be able to breed them, therefore breeders would keep their customers coming for them. Your right, most of them are sterile...but because breeders sterile them. The chance of finding a fertile male rose queen is the same as finding a fertile male BP, KKP, or Mammon. You can search rose queen, BP, KKP, and Mammon anywhere online. They will say that males are sterile and only females are fertile. But that's only true for the customers. Everything is work under the table by the breeder, few to little known anything about it. Also has been done with higher quality flowerhorns too. And the only reason is, they want to keep their line of fish.
And if I'm not mistaken, a labiatus is a Red Devil. Amphilophus can be Red Devil or Midas.

In red: You know this is only theory? I dont think this have been proven or a breeder has stepped forth and said they are purposely made sterile. I will agree its 1 hell of a good marketing idea to keep demand high. But thats besides the point.
Rose queens carry the same genes as blood parrots and king kong parrots.
Whether that is a genetic hybrid defect (because animals have a biological genetic system which is to prevent abundance of mixed species. ), or they have been sterilized by man is still questionable.
Truth is, MOST will be sterile. I believe they are created from Citrinellus as well, not Labiatus. Whether you like them or not is going to be personal preference, Like all hybrids.

 

[fishguts]

In red: You know this is only theory? I dont think this have been proven or a breeder has stepped forth and said they are purposely made sterile. I will agree its 1 hell of a good marketing idea to keep demand high. But thats besides the point.
Rose queens carry the same genes as blood parrots and king kong parrots.
Whether that is a genetic hybrid defect (because animals have a biological genetic system which is to prevent abundance of mixed species. ), or they have been sterilized by man is still questionable.
Truth is, MOST will be sterile. I believe they are created from Citrinellus as well, not Labiatus. Whether you like them or not is going to be personal preference, Like all hybrids.

i totally agree about the breeder making them sterile is just a theory.. i am a firm believer thats mother natures way of making things not get to out wack. as alot of members on here know i am probably the only one on this site who has crossed a trimac and red bay snook. i sold some to members and they bred and guess what the males were sterile. whats that tell ya. im just hoping i get lucky and have a fertile one but chances are slim

 

[BIG_ONE]

In red: You know this is only theory? I dont think this have been proven or a breeder has stepped forth and said they are purposely made sterile. I will agree its 1 hell of a good marketing idea to keep demand high. But thats besides the point.
Rose queens carry the same genes as blood parrots and king kong parrots.
Whether that is a genetic hybrid defect (because animals have a biological genetic system which is to prevent abundance of mixed species. ), or they have been sterilized by man is still questionable.
Truth is, MOST will be sterile. I believe they are created from Citrinellus as well, not Labiatus. Whether you like them or not is going to be personal preference, Like all hybrids.

Your correct, it is a theory. But it's only a theory because breeders are not willing to step forth and say it out. If a breeder spills it out, then customers would demand for fertile male am I correct? Thus in the outcome, will slowly reduce their customers. BP itself takes a few years to accomplish if you were to create them, it sets multiple species of fish. Most BP or any hybrid keepers that invest a whole lot of their timing just to find the truth and recipe to the fish actually knows a bit more than those that goes by what other says or what it is said online. I do know an Asian guy that is about 2 hours from where I live that try to recreate BP to be exact, and I will admit his result is extremely close or almost identical, but still lack something else. The fish he uses are a cross of midas/devils with severums and redhead. Approximately 2-3 years? Or maybe even more...who knows. I would have to contact him and speak with him for more info about it. Believe or not, your call and I won't convince anyone to believe it.
I have yet to come forth and speak with a master breeder getting the answer saying that they sterile the male. I think any breeder who spill this out would just hurt their own reputation only. But I did get answers from them saying that it is super hard work to create species all over in such timing and demand world wide. Thousands of fish are being bought each year, but it takes a few years to create them. So in order to stay on track, you would need a male of what you created to breed with a female for an easier supply into the fish marketing world. It's like saying lets create a KK from scratch, it would take close to 10 years to even try and perfect it to suit your customers liking. But yet fish are being created more than enough to supply the fish market out there world wide. Fertile males are definitely in the use to create these fish that supplies around the globe. Now I will not say that every single male is fertile, I would agree that not every single one of them are fertile. Kind of runs the same course here with FH here. In the same batch, you can have about 200 males with 100-150 being fertile and the rest sterile. But setting it at that standard, it is a high rate of finding a fertile male am I correct? So is there any reason why there is such a low possibility of getting your hand on a fertile BP, KKP, Mammon or a Rose Queen for that matter? I hope you guys get where I am coming from...if you know something different, post it up and keep us all educated with our knowledge to share.

 

[fishguts]

not sure where your getting your numbers that 100-150 out of 200 would be fertile i think its more like 10 out of 100. like i said i crossed the trimac and bay snook and so far 4 for 4 of the males have been sterile and i sure didnt make any fish sterile myself. the one i have now is the last hope of having a fertile one. i think that theory of the breeder making them sterile is just that a theory that few people have bought into. if thats what you want to believe then thats fine but i sure dont believe it. someone always slips up and i mean always. if that theory were true some breeders couldnt keep there mouth shut for all these years. someone would have let the cat out of the bag by now

 

[FishingOut]

There is no severum in the blood parrot process. Its purely Vieja x Amphilophus, Ca and Sa can not hybridize. Then just line-bred from there for the rounder-heart shape. Its not as much of a "secret" anymore, There are alot of people breeding these other than just Asia anymore. Its just a 3-5 year process and you have to have alot of fish to diversify the genepool, and most people dont want to commit to that.
But I cant really say if they are made sterile or sterile by hybridization. The more hybrid the fish is the higher chance of sterile issues. Like Kamfas with white eyes, Almost always sterile, but are extremely nice looking kamfas.... The world may never know.

 

[BIG_ONE]

not sure where your getting your numbers that 100-150 out of 200 would be fertile i think its more like 10 out of 100. like i said i crossed the trimac and bay snook and so far 4 for 4 of the males have been sterile and i sure didnt make any fish sterile myself. the one i have now is the last hope of having a fertile one. i think that theory of the breeder making them sterile is just that a theory that few people have bought into. if thats what you want to believe then thats fine but i sure dont believe it. someone always slips up and i mean always. if that theory were true some breeders couldnt keep there mouth shut for all these years. someone would have let the cat out of the bag by now

Where am I getting those numbers? Those are estimation(on average count per batch) that I've gathered from 4 local breeders here where I live, 2 in San Jose, 1 in Orange County, 3 in Singapore, 2 in Minnesota, and 1 in San Diego. Plus that guy that try to recreate BP that I was talking about, he does indeed have quite good numbers of fertility rate with males. At least 30%...the only thing wrong is that they are not 100% identical to most BP out there on average base. Does this mean he never bred any that all his BP recreating never looked like any of the BP out there? Most definitely not. He did achieve quite a few batch with no difference at all from the rest of the BP. And yet, at least 30% of all the males are fertile.
Breeding trimac and red bay snook. 4 out of 4, are you serious? That is an incredibly low number of males and it wouldn't even be listed as something having experienced with sterile male hybrids from breedings. I do know a guy who have tried 5 attempts breeding his male flowerhorn, all eggs turned white. And this fish, we're talking about almost full grown being 10" from tip to tip. The 6th attempt and the entire batch is fertilized. Does this mean that your Trimac X Red Bay is totally sterile? I highly doubt it. But I never said that it is fertile either, I think efforts needs to be put into it regardless how much time you think your going to waste. Seen and heard a lot of fish that is "thought" to be sterile, actually end up being fertile after countless numbers of attempt. To my opinion, some people just doesn't put enough effort into it. And if you were to think breeders couldn't keep their mouth shut, your way underestimating them. They have done a real great job...seriously...no joke.

 

[BIG_ONE]

There is no severum in the blood parrot process. Its purely Vieja x Amphilophus, Ca and Sa can not hybridize. Then just line-bred from there for the rounder-heart shape. Its not as much of a "secret" anymore, There are alot of people breeding these other than just Asia anymore. Its just a 3-5 year process and you have to have alot of fish to diversify the genepool, and most people dont want to commit to that.
But I cant really say if they are made sterile or sterile by hybridization. The more hybrid the fish is the higher chance of sterile issues. Like Kamfas with white eyes, Almost always sterile, but are extremely nice looking kamfas.... The world may never know.

As far as Kamfas goes, they are not almost always sterile. I will not say that I have seen a lot of them being fertile, but I will say that I've seen a good number of them. Kamfa came from GM believe it or not, some says that GM came from Kamfa. But go ahead and start contacting true GM Malaysian breeders from Ipoh and so on. They'll tell you how Thailand bought their infamous KGM and cross it out into making a Kamfa(first Kamfa is created in Thailand). Even though a good number of them are sterile, finding a fertile Kamfa isn't rare at all IMO. Now some hobbyist say that if a Kamfa is fertile, then it has really high ZZ strain in it. Seriously? When Kamfa came from GM itself?...ehh?