stingray i.d's please

[Fish Room Plus]

These are brought in from Peru as Assorted rays...Motoro sp.

 

[najiru]

TBH I don't think these are all motoro morphs.

From the original 4 pics the last one looks a bit like yepezi. The first like an orb varient or humerosa varient and the second and third I'm not sure, especially with the slightly blured pics. There are a lot of rays similar to these coming at the moment that really have no proper ID IMO which is making everyones life that bit more tricky.

One big thing though against motoro is that the tail markings are stripped. I have never seen a motoro that has had a striped tail. They have always been spotted either with small close spots or larger spaced out ones. (This could just be the ones I've seen though)

BTW £150 for 4 rays at that size is an absolute bargain in the UK, good work!

 

[Miles]

BTW £150 for 4 rays at that size is an absolute bargain in the UK, good work!

They are a bargain because they are 'Raya Common', like he said.. A common Motoro variant that is collected in high numbers in Iquitos, Peru. Most of the other variants you talked about come from other regions, and even the so-called 'yepezi' ray might actually be a motoro variant, come to find out the true one is very different.

 

[AquataHolic420]

Yah I am thinking about making a website for it but it might be difficult because I will find a bunch of opposing opinions..

I like that you are motivated to further the FW stingray knowledge for all of us. That is very nice of you.

Opposing opinions would also benefit you in some ways, people could just expand your understanding, although im sure some peoples opinions will not benefit you at all...

But if you create a website, and update it on a regular basis as your knowledge grows, i see nothing but great things coming from this idea...

and maybe after somebody who opposes your ideas sees your web page, they may get motivated to prove you wrong and create another web site of their own.

Good luck Miles, I think nothing but good things can come from your idea.

 

[najiru]

In my experience the tail still isn't right on these for motoro. The thing with varients is where to draw the line. I mean I know some people believe there are only a few true differnent species and everything else is a varient. My sugestions may be wrong for geographical reasons but I still disagree with motoro sp.

Can't wait for your guide to be finished so at least there is a point to work from. Then, as stated above, as info evolves we can fill in any gaps etc.

 

[Miles]

In my experience the tail still isn't right on these for motoro. The thing with varients is where to draw the line. I mean I know some people believe there are only a few true differnent species and everything else is a varient. My sugestions may be wrong for geographical reasons but I still disagree with motoro sp.

In these pictures below.. You will find rays exported out of Peru under 5 common names.. 'Common', 'Laticeps', 'Hystrix', 'Yepezi', 'Motoro'..

Can you distinguish any of them?.. In the 2nd pic, there are 3 separate ID's, apparently..

The reason they are all considered Motoro sp. "Peru" is because their are a number of brown rays that come out of the Iquitos region with variance in pattern and coloration.

Humerosa, Orbignyi, and the TRUE Yepezi are exported from specific locales, and usually demand a higher price from the time it leaves the collection site.. Most of these Peruvian Motoros are caught in mass numbers with throw nets and are sold for a couple bucks each.. The Peruvian 'Yepezi' is more than likely a Motoro morph as well.. true Yepezi come from an entirely different country.

Many of these names and mish-mash is from the confusion of collectors and exporters, and if one ray differentiates itself from another, they classify it as a new species, rather then calling them all Motoro morphs.. It makes their selling list look bigger with more variety..

Unless you paid more for them, I would say that they are all Peruvian Motoro Morphs, caught with a throw net in high numbers near Iquitos.. The exporter/importer got them real cheap, and thus the deal was passed on to you.. They could of been exported with multiple names, each one different for each pattern morph.. but they are all Peru Motoro.

 

[spotfin]

I thought one of the distinguishing characteristics of motoros are light colored spots surrounded by a dark ring???

 

[Miles]

Just in common Motoros.. It is believed that their are many regional morphs, and possibly wild hybrids of potamotrygon.

 

[najiru]

I'm no ray ID expert and I am certainly no morph expert either so I except that I may be fundamentally wrong in my thinking but in your pics Miles I agree that all but one look very similar. The one that looks different looks like a (traditional) motoro with spots and it's tail is also spotted not striped. The others have striped tails. This IMO means there is one motoro/motoro varient and the others are something else. I don't doubt they were collected together in nets making the price low but this doesn't in itself make them motoro varients. They may have become known as motoro sp peru but I am still to be convinced that they actually are.

At that size no rays go that cheap in the uk so it was definetly a bargain and I'm sure they will be great rays so I'll stop cluttering up your thread now
N