Thanks. I set up my 1200gph sump pump on the barrel and we'll see what happens. IF that's the problem it should be fairly quick to start working again eh?
Sudden ammonia rise
- Thread starter HoundsNTrout
- Start date
Thanks. I set up my 1200gph sump pump on the barrel and we'll see what happens. IF that's the problem it should be fairly quick to start working again eh?
Heres how I had it last night.
With the 300gph pump going into the barrel. ANd yes the barrel is CLEAN on the inside. lol
Plenty of water movement inside the tank and agitation and aeration. So I guess we'll see how long it takes with the 1200 sump going into the barrel to get back to zero.
And I took the little airstone out of the barrel. I don't think its gonna amount to much.
I really like the polyethyline sock filters rather than the "felt" ones. Should I be using maybe 200 micron though? In stead of 400? Maybe I'll set one up with a 200 and see if it collects more yet still keep a nice flow out to help aerate.
So:
300GPH pump on bottom for the sock filter but I have no sponge over that one. I want straight sucking right into that sock.
300Gph pump on bottom with a 1 ft piece of pvc in the corner rotating water in a circular motion along the bottom . HOpes of helping the other sock pump catch a lot of crap.
300gph pump going into barrel.
All 3/4" pipe size.
CURRENTLY, the sump pump 1200gph is going into barrel. So we shall see. Maybe I actually DO have to add another barrel . IDK.
OR should there be some sort of diffuser on the bottom of the barrel with holes to aggetate the water rathher than circular motion?
With the 300gph pump going into the barrel. ANd yes the barrel is CLEAN on the inside. lol
Plenty of water movement inside the tank and agitation and aeration. So I guess we'll see how long it takes with the 1200 sump going into the barrel to get back to zero.
And I took the little airstone out of the barrel. I don't think its gonna amount to much.
I really like the polyethyline sock filters rather than the "felt" ones. Should I be using maybe 200 micron though? In stead of 400? Maybe I'll set one up with a 200 and see if it collects more yet still keep a nice flow out to help aerate.
So:
300GPH pump on bottom for the sock filter but I have no sponge over that one. I want straight sucking right into that sock.
300Gph pump on bottom with a 1 ft piece of pvc in the corner rotating water in a circular motion along the bottom . HOpes of helping the other sock pump catch a lot of crap.
300gph pump going into barrel.
All 3/4" pipe size.
CURRENTLY, the sump pump 1200gph is going into barrel. So we shall see. Maybe I actually DO have to add another barrel . IDK.
OR should there be some sort of diffuser on the bottom of the barrel with holes to aggetate the water rathher than circular motion?
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Looks good to me now. See how it goes. Time will tell. My only concern is with the screen media.It looks dirty enough but it could be counteractive now disturbing any biomedia. The good oxygenation and extra flow through should help. Once that's sorted, you could look into figuring how to prevent debris/large food particles flowing into the filter at that rate. What are the ammonia/nitrite levels now?
Yeah, I have not come up with the perfect solution to keep small debris out but the flow up high.
I have a screen material fairly fine over my sump pump at the moment. None on the sock pump. Maybe putting one on that pump will help tiny debris? IDK. I figure more free-flow getting pumped into the sock the better.
After a nightly water change of 75Gallons, no feeding past 6pm usually the morning levels are .25 Nitrites, about the same ammonia. However Two hours after even a medium sized feeding the ammonia is 3 to 4. with Nitrites maybe .50 but normally not too much higher.
So its basically not even working. Or minimal.
I was actually taking out 75% of the water each morning and 25% at night when I first noticed the 4ppm ammonia. It also did a salt treatment for 3 days last week with no feeding the fish. THe levels went to zero obviously. I also do these salt treatments and hydrogen peroxide ( NO pumps running ) then pretty much empty tank and re-fill. Doubtful it was the H2O2 that killed my bio filter. Something did. It shouldn't have spiked over night right? Basically before after a large feeding ( feed them til they stop feeding ) I might get a sudden rise to .25 even .50 but within 6 hours it usually went down to zero.
I'll see what happens with the larger pump. IDK. I'll go through a gallon of Prime in no time. LOL
Usually I would say I know, I' ve done this dozens of times before with no issues. The ammonia developed weeks prior to doing any H2O2 treatments.
But thanks.
So this morning ammonia 4+, nitrites about the same as last night .25
Heading out to do a 75% water change and add the Prime again. So the ammonia actually elevated quite high last night.
I will not be feeding them for a few days now. Let this higher flow rate keep going and see if anything remarkable happens within a week. Other than 5 ammonia level over night.
Heading out to do a 75% water change and add the Prime again. So the ammonia actually elevated quite high last night.
I will not be feeding them for a few days now. Let this higher flow rate keep going and see if anything remarkable happens within a week. Other than 5 ammonia level over night.
In order to get those levels of ammonia, the biological filtration in the first place must have suffered a major setback for one or another reason.
I am not aware of the timeline of events, when and what was done. You know better. But the increased flow rate will help in the long term, preventing any setbacks like this. A turn over of one time the water volume an hour is extremely insufficient, whichever way you want to look at it.
A 75% water change will remove 75% of the 5ppm ammonia, providing one has read the test well. So when you do a 75% water change, test just after the water change, you should have a readable ammonia of 1.25ppm roughly. 50% will only reduce it to 2.5ppm. This will give you an idea if the test is accurate. Prime does skew the test reading depending on the water chemistry.
It is pretty normal to get a very high ammonia level in an uncycled tank full of fish.....But the ammonia should really be going down to zero in a week, especially in a previously cycled tank, unless there is something dead and big rotting in the tank....
I am not aware of the timeline of events, when and what was done. You know better. But the increased flow rate will help in the long term, preventing any setbacks like this. A turn over of one time the water volume an hour is extremely insufficient, whichever way you want to look at it.
A 75% water change will remove 75% of the 5ppm ammonia, providing one has read the test well. So when you do a 75% water change, test just after the water change, you should have a readable ammonia of 1.25ppm roughly. 50% will only reduce it to 2.5ppm. This will give you an idea if the test is accurate. Prime does skew the test reading depending on the water chemistry.
It is pretty normal to get a very high ammonia level in an uncycled tank full of fish.....But the ammonia should really be going down to zero in a week, especially in a previously cycled tank, unless there is something dead and big rotting in the tank....
Ok, no big monsters dead in there YET. LOL
I think my plan of action is simply going to not feed them for a few days, while still doing WC.
IF it is continuing to decrease in numbers.
ONce the numbers go back to zero I will offer food ONCE daily and see what happens especially with the new pump doing 5X as tank volume. THen we'll see what happens.
With this increase in the volume and flow going through the barrel filter I see a lot of crap flying around AND also of course going into the fish tank.
I have put nylon screen material over the sump pump and the sponge type filter back over the sock pump and I also put a sponge filter over the circulation pump that sits on bottom.
SO, my thoughts are basically something happened to the bio filter AND it also had not enough flow rate. I mean with the water temp's sometimes going from 50 to 60 in one day if I'm not careful on the timer or even down to 48 that is not good for the BB.
So after a few days, four? Who knows. I am HOPING all the crud and stuff floating around will be be settling by then or getting used to the new flow and that the sock filers and sponge filters will continue collecting a lot of that. So in a week should be back to at least cleaner looking water.
I bet some of that stuff floating around IS BB though, so I guess I wait til it re-establishes itself.
Just 2 weeks ago I was feeding 3 big meals per day and it might spike to .25 then go back down within a few hours and then zilch in the morning. Same fish.
My FEELINGS are that the water temp's got down too cold for too long. Like 46 degrees for more than 24 hours.
When I noticed this, it took half day to get it back to just 55.
So theres my plan, I'll let everybody know what transpires.
Looks like things are slowly improving. Fed them once rather than 3X. This morning levels are both down to .25 maybe less.
I did a test and seems after going through the barrel, my water displacement is now 900GPH. Still not enough according to most of you here.
Question on that: The sucking end that is coming off the sump pump is 3/4" Garden hose. What is going into barrel is only 1/2 " Will increasing that to 1 or 1 1/4" do anything for the total displacement? In other words maybe get it up to 1000 or 1100 at least? Or no?
The one in there now is 1680 and obviously after the barrel is down to 900.
If I do simple math that means to get say 1500 gph ( 5X the tank ) that would mean I need a 2800 gph rated pump. ?
I did a test and seems after going through the barrel, my water displacement is now 900GPH. Still not enough according to most of you here.
Question on that: The sucking end that is coming off the sump pump is 3/4" Garden hose. What is going into barrel is only 1/2 " Will increasing that to 1 or 1 1/4" do anything for the total displacement? In other words maybe get it up to 1000 or 1100 at least? Or no?
The one in there now is 1680 and obviously after the barrel is down to 900.
If I do simple math that means to get say 1500 gph ( 5X the tank ) that would mean I need a 2800 gph rated pump. ?
