Tank Cycle Phobia?

[LBDave]

Hello; I decided to follow this thread in part because your initial post was intriguing. Also because I tend to read anything duanes does post. Again you have intrigued me with the bit about transferring some of the chemicals fish already live in. This is something I have never considered to do. I am not intending to be a critic, more as this is something I do not follow. I try to dilute and remove old tank water because it has such chemicals. New water will soon be loaded with the stuff as fish live in it.

It it in some way a part of an assimilation process?

I acknowledged in the thread that water from the current stocked tank has chemicals in it that may not be desire able.
That's why we do water changes. But adding some to the non stocked tank is meant to lower ph a bit and lessen the shock of the new water.
Like I say it's like avoiding a 100% water change. I wouldn't focus on it that much. If people say it's not necessary it's not like I am going to argue about it. I'm just being extra careful.

 

[Zanzag]

Its hard to fault someone for being extra careful when it comes to their pets. I can see the logic being to help even out all the values we test for that arent nitrogen related.

 

[skjl47]

But adding some to the non stocked tank is meant to lower ph a bit and lessen the shock of the new water.

Hello; Ok about the pH for now but if the tank is not yet stocked what will be shocked by the new water? My guess is you are clear about you are doing but I am slow on the uptake. About the pH, my practice eventually became to deal with my source water as it is. Trying to adjust pH can be a challenge.

Like I say it's like avoiding a 100% water change

Hello; With fish in a tank a 100% WC is a real problem. In an empty tank 100% is doable. My next question is why avoid a big WC anyway?

I'm just being extra careful.

Hello; Fair enough. Taking care is the way to go.

 

[Niki_up]

Something that wasn’t mentioned but might be something to consider is...are you being over cautious and building up too big of a BB colony?

If you have too much BB and you only transfer one fish into the new tank and say this new fish doesn’t produce enough waste for the BB to survive will the die back of the BB cause problems for your tank? (I’m not an expert of the sorts but wanted to put that out there in case someone else might know)

 

[Zanzag]

Something that wasn’t mentioned but might be something to consider is...are you being over cautious and building up too big of a BB colony?

If you have too much BB and you only transfer one fish into the new tank and say this new fish doesn’t produce enough waste for the BB to survive will the die back of the BB cause problems for your tank? (I’m not an expert of the sorts but wanted to put that out there in case someone else might know)

Yes, but it is better to start with too much bb at the start and have them die back to the amount thats needed than it is to try and play catch-up with them

 

[Niki_up]

Yes, but it is better to start with too much bb at the start and have them die back to the amount thats needed than it is to try and play catch-up with them

Fair enough, I wasn’t sure if it would cause a tank crash due to all the dead BB...and to me a tank crash would be worse than a mini cycle....

 

[skjl47]

Its hard to fault someone for being extra careful when it comes to their pets. I can see the logic being to help even out all the values we test for that arent nitrogen related.

Hello; Afraid I do not see the logic yet which is why I am asking. My take has been for a while that we strive to keep the water free of added chemicals either mineral or organic. I get that pure water such as distilled water is not good because it has too low of a mineral content so fresh water in nature has some basic content.
However in wild conditions the huge volume of water should dilute chemicals given off by the fish whereas in closed tank these chemicals have no place to go. We do WC to both remove some of the buildup when we remove old water and dilute what remains with the new source water.
I get the need to harvest bb from an established tank because we need to get some colonies started in a new setup. I do not get the need to add old tank water which has some load of fish byproduct chemicals.
If I were willing to set it up and pay the water bill I would like to have continuous turnover of my tank volumes a few times a day. Some do 80 to 90 % WC more than once a week.

The practice of adding old tank water to a new tank setup may be more common than I know about and may have sound reasons behind it. I am curious as to what the benefits may be.

 

[Zanzag]

My take would be that adding say 10% old water to 90% new water would be similar to the tank they come from after a 90% WC. Transferring the fish to this new similar environment should to a degree lessen the stress.

 

[Zanzag]

It seems along the same lines of a person who neglects water changes for a long time, then does a big one only to wind up with a bunch of dead fish from the shock of their new water being so chemically different than the soup they were in.

 

[skjl47]

Fair enough, I wasn’t sure if it would cause a tank crash due to all the dead BB...and to me a tank crash would be worse than a mini cycle....

Hello; My take is the total mass of the bb colonies is not to great. The bb that are not getting enough of their favored nutrients ( ammonia or nitrites) will die off or become dormant. Those that die will of course decay but my take is this is not a sudden process. The first to die and decay should in fact add some ammonia in the decay process. ( Keep in mind some do a fishless cycle by throwing in some shrimp and allowing it to decay.) This die off should be gradual and that the actual mass of the bb is not great (my untested assumption here) there should not be a crisis.
One more point is that a crashed cycle is when for some reason most or all the bb die off. In this scenario the excess numbers of bb die off but plenty remain to deal with the ammonia.