Tank Cycling With High NH3 Contents
- Thread starter piranhaman00
- Start date
Just to let you know that the API tests the total ammonia content of the system and not just free ammonia (NH3). If you were to test tap water with chloramine using the API test, you would get a reading, but if you were to use a free ammonia test kit like Seachem, you wouldn't.
Mmm I see. I added RODI water that was treated with prime to remove any chloramines. If I am correct, this could give a false high reading for NH3. However, once the prime dissipates from the system it should be accurate again, right?
Hello; This is from reading threads so I may have the details wrong. Based on the posts I gather the prime binds the ammonia short term but the beneficial bacteria (bb) can still use it during this time if there are enough bb around.
Agreed, most likely a false ammonia reading on your API test, if you are using Seachem Prime as a water conditioner. Good catch Rocksor. Salicylate or Nessler based test kits determine the total ammonia by raising the pH of the test solution to 12 or greater. At this high pH all ammonia removal products will breakdown and re-release the ammonia, giving a false ammonia reading. Total ammonia is simply a reading of NH3 (toxic) and NH4+ (non toxic) combined.
According to Seachem, when using their products such as Prime and/or Safe, the ammonia is converted into the Schiff base of an aldehyde (R2C=NH) which is non-toxic.
Prime can only "bind" so much NH3, so it would also depend on the quantity of Prime that you used. Either way, in approx 48 hrs you should be back to getting accurate readings again.
According to Seachem, when using their products such as Prime and/or Safe, the ammonia is converted into the Schiff base of an aldehyde (R2C=NH) which is non-toxic.
Prime can only "bind" so much NH3, so it would also depend on the quantity of Prime that you used. Either way, in approx 48 hrs you should be back to getting accurate readings again.
Yes this is correct after doing some research, thanks.
Thanks for the reply. This backs up what I was reading perfectly.
I am struggling with the "false reading" though. If I am cycling the tank do I really care if its NH3 or NH4+? I want them both to go to 0ppm and since there is no fish the toxicity of ammonia doesnt really matter. The prime is binding the ammonia to NH4+ but will soon release it to turn back to NH3 so the reading shouldnt change. If there were fish I can see why the false reading would matter but in this case I dont believe it does. Please correct me if I am wrong!
The only reason I am adding prime after RO/DI is too address chloramines. I just got of the phone with my cities water provider analyst and this month chlorine/chloramine was at 2.4ppm. Prime is rated to remove chlorine and chloramine at 5ppm and 4ppm respectively at the standard dose (source). I should have readily removed both with the standard dose I used. The removal of chloramine does create NH3 so this could also account for some of the ppm.
Prime doesn't exactly "remove" chloramine. With products such as Seachem Prime or Safe, the chlorine/ammonia bond is broken on contact with the dechlorinator, the chlorine is then reduced to harmless chloride and the ammonia is then bound until it is utilized within the biological filtration. Unless you raise your pH to 12 it will not release the ammonia back. Your ultimate goal would be to have a 0 ammonia reading, and with a typical water test kit at some point getting the NH3 reading, vs NH4, will obviously make a difference. One of these sensors can help when you get closer to adding fish. https://www.seachem.com/ammonia-alert.php
From what I've read, the BBs handling high ammonia (I guess 4-8 ppm and higher) are a different bacterial species (morph? form?) than the BBs handling our normal ammonia of 0-0.25 ppm. Just something to keep in mind or read up on.
IIRC there was a scientific paper not so long ago describing this rather new finding of differing BB species being active at different ammonia concentrations, or bacterial subspecies, etc. don't quote me. The gist is it's not that simple and speeding up the tank cycling by using higher NH3 concentrations may be counterproductive.
IIRC there was a scientific paper not so long ago describing this rather new finding of differing BB species being active at different ammonia concentrations, or bacterial subspecies, etc. don't quote me. The gist is it's not that simple and speeding up the tank cycling by using higher NH3 concentrations may be counterproductive.
That is interesting, I am sure there are different species in the genus I listed above that are more effective at different levels of NH3. Also the fact that bacteria can evolve rapidly to adapt to changing environments.
