tank size

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
all of the people that have "attacked" in most cases have had the same person ask for help, then rejects the advice given. all the while making so much stuff up he don't remember half the crap coming out.

there are/were proper mins in the stickies, but they got taken down for maintenance and have not been fully fixed yet. there may be some in the one sticky that is mostly operational, but we have no say in that. they will be done though. dayak if you don't like the min tank size given it is easy to solve with out any crap from anyone. do what you want and don't post it. same goes for everyone and every thing. if you have something illegal, don't post it. if you have something in to small of a tank, don't post it. if you want to post pics of your fish do only that and leave it at that. you know how you can avoid most of the bs that comes with your location and fish you see? here is a thought dont put a location in that field. reechardd your in alaska, for all people know you could have walked into canada for lunch. there are just some people that don't get it. one of them you seem to be advocating in your post. just think about who you want to advocate for. otherwise you'll end up in the same situation as they are for being foolish. it is just the way of the world has been and wont change.
 
The passion we all share to acquire beautiful fish like these sometimes pushes us to forego the normal thought process and simply satisfy our own needs. Our arowana cannot verbalize that they are unhappy or cramped, they are simply destined to live out their lives in whatever space the owner provides. They don't just up and die on us immediately, they simply swim around till the clock expires, but as passionate owners, it is OUR duty to provide adequate living conditions to replicate to the best of our abilities a natural habitat that mimics their native ones. So when we know that these fish grow to lengths of 24-36" can you honestly say that the fish would be HAPPIEST living in an 18" width aquarium? Sure it will survive, probably for quite some time. The "flames" and "bashing" comes from experience that we can provide better, and that these fish DESERVE better. We are not God, we have no real right to treat these fish how we please. As a RESPONSIBLE owner, we are obligated to provide the best conditions we can afford, and it upsets other owners to see some people cramming these elegant fish into what we see or have experienced to be too small.

At the end of the day there are no laws preventing people from jamming a silver aro into a 75 gallon till the day it dies, but our hearts cannot allow us to remain silent and people lash out. Perhaps these people don't deserve to be able to own such fish, but there is little we can do and that frustration is played out in the forums as "flaming the noob" and I for one believe it is deserved. These fish deserve the treatment and care of any other pet. A dog can bark, a cat can meow, but fish have no way of communicating displeasure, so we all rely on one another for their experiences, and knowledge learned the hard way and have carved out the "right" way. Follow it or not, its up to you, your own ignorance or acceptance of what others can teach you will be fate.
 
There's nothing wrong with telling someone they will need X size tank to keep Y fish. But I honestly think the best way to tell them is to ask them questions: Do you know how large the fish grows and do you know what size tank you would need to accommodate said fish?

I find that the people that get very defensive and hostile when asked these questions are the ones who have no idea or are just being irresponsible. When they come back with a stupid response that shows they clearly do not have any intention of providing a suitable environment for the fish or do not have the resources, I don't think there is anything wrong with breaking out the flamethrower...it's the unethical fishkeepers that give this site a bad name. Tank size is a subjective issue to a certain extent....but when a fish can barely turn around without hitting the walls, it's pretty clear that the tank is too small.
 
I always stick up for noobs cuz their coming here to learn and that is more then some can say, like coming here to brag already thinking u know everything.

There's a difference between flamming and giving advice.




Go S. Vettel #1 rb8
 
I love how people think others are being snotty or hostile when we tell them you cant keep a fish in the current conditions they have set up or plan to. If you don't like advice here, then simply do not ask for it.

A lot of people ask for advice then complain about the answers and just wait for 1 person out of 100 to tell them what they want to hear.
 
I think you're right on the money, the reason so many people get upset about people who talk about 8x3' footprints as the bare minimum for arowana is because they really want the fish but know that they can't provide an adequate home for it. Go to any public aquarium and look at the huge metre-long silver aros so commonly seen in large displays and then ask yourself is even a 360g (8x3x2') really enough for a fish like that.

It isn't just arowana though, I look at JohnPTC's peacock bass then look at the number of people keeping them and wonder how many will ever make it to anything bigger than a 180g. Same for dovii, MelO's pair look comfortable in his 600g and I don't think anything less would really do them justice. How many for the thousands sold every year will hit 2'+ in a massive tank? "Oh I'll upgrade it when he needs it". By the time the fish looks too big for the tank its probably already stunted slow path to nowhere. Probably the worst example is the clown loach. Sold in their millions world-wide to eat snails in 30g tanks everywhere. What percentage of them ever end up being kept in good sized schools in sufficient sized tanks and reach anything near their potential size? Its a really negative side to the hobby that would put me off ever working in an LFS (would probably get fired for refusing to sell CLs to anyone with less than a 6' tank...) and makes me question the ethics of the whole "Monster" attitude. Everyone wants to keep big fish, nobody wants to admit that they really aren't capable of housing them properly though...
 
Growing a juvy fish out in a smaller enviroment allows the water quality and diet to be kept easier and more efficient, obviously you will spend more money upgrading but imo its worth it if u have the space.



Go S. Vettel #1 rb8
 
I honestly think half the problem is irs all in txt n u cant see what tone it is being said in some people dont mean to flame it jus comes across that way. But yeah there are some c...s on here I remember joining this site about two years coz I lost my oscar n was worried about my old aro. I was new to the hobby n all I got was ur a terrible fish keeper u shouldnt b keeping fish n so on n so forth. All I was intrested in was advice to prevent this happening again. Thankfully there are some good people on here n now I have a general understanding of what needs to be done n the commitment to keep ur water clean n fish healthy. Its a learning curve people. Noone decent intentionally puts these fish in bad conditions and 90% do tjere best to keep things optimal

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F1 VET said:
Growing a juvy fish out in a smaller enviroment allows the water quality ... to be kept easier and more efficient
Click to expand...

Rubbish. A larger volume of water will ALWAYS be more stable and easier to keep healthy than a smaller volume with the same fish, rergardless of their size.

The point about feeding is valid to an extent, but only in the case of a fish that is shy an difficult to feed. I wouldn't put a young black aro straight into a 400g tank regardless of the other fish in there, but I also wouldn't keep it in a 30g until it was "necessary" to upgrade. And I also wouldn't hesitate to put a school of 2" clown loaches in a 400g+ tank [provided there was nothing to eat them] as once settled they should be active and easy to feed. I am currently raising a black, I bought it at around 5" and added it straight into my 400L with eartheaters and plecs, 24 hours later its eating pellets and has been a great eater ever since (far better than my last black aro that I began raising in a 200L tank by itself because everyone says they are so delicate).

Grow out tanks have their place, but far too often I see people using it as an excuse to keep fish they don't have the means to house. With every fish I have ever kept (be it arowana, polypterus, clown loaches, cichlids, plecs) I have seen a vast improvement in growth rate and general heath with an increase in tank size, especially with slower growing species with large potential size like clown loaches.

Starting out with a small tank and waiting until you "need to" upgrade will not only cost you more money, it can also be detrimental to your fishes growth and long term health.
 
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