Tell me about Tropheus?
- Thread starter TheFanatic
- Start date
I would have loved to have Tropheus, but I do think they need a good group size and space.
An alternative I came across is Eretmodus cyanostictus, requires very special care, but can be kept in a much smaller aquarium. Very, very nice fish!
An alternative I came across is Eretmodus cyanostictus, requires very special care, but can be kept in a much smaller aquarium. Very, very nice fish!
I've seen about 30 tropheus in a 40 gal breeder and they actually breed for a couple years. The owner got bored of them and sold them. He used an Aqua Clear 110 and 15-20% water changes every week.
How are you going to fit 30 Thropheus in a 40 gallon tank?! That's completely irresponsible. The fish will be chronically stressed due to confinement. A group that big needs five times the space to live healthy and stress free!fsc46;1492238; said:
Dutch;1490453; said:
Let's focus on the bold here text here.
I'm sure you want what's best for the fish and try to be a responsible fish keeper. There are a few things you are not considering though. If tropheus are stressed, they would get bloat and die. Secondly, breeding is a sign that the tank conditions are stable, the water quality is excellent and that they are not at all stressed do to the intentional over crowding. In most cases but not all, over crowding is an effective way of minimizing/eliminating aggression.
Here's a recap:
1) No bloat
2) Excellent water quality
3) Fish are breeding
4) Reduced/no aggression
5) No deaths or fighting among tank mates
All of this leads me to believe these fish are in fact happy and were well cared for. Number 3 is the clincher though.
That doesn't convince me at all. The reason? I work in a lab that is world renowned for its research on stress in fish. Confinement of fish like that is a standard way of inducing stress for many species.
Stress is not always seen, actually, stress is extremely difficult to detect in fish. Neither is stress straight forward. Stress that is induced can just as well suppress aggression. That they reproduce can be caused by elevated levels of reproductive hormones caused by the stress, although I suspect that the breeder induced reproduction artificially by means of hormone injection (or addition to the water).
A stress response differs from species to species and can not be standardized by the critria you just gave. The best way to avoid stress is to look at the natural environment where a species lives and copy that to the aquarium conditions. That also includes space for movement if a species is active like Tropheus.
Stress is not always seen, actually, stress is extremely difficult to detect in fish. Neither is stress straight forward. Stress that is induced can just as well suppress aggression. That they reproduce can be caused by elevated levels of reproductive hormones caused by the stress, although I suspect that the breeder induced reproduction artificially by means of hormone injection (or addition to the water).
A stress response differs from species to species and can not be standardized by the critria you just gave. The best way to avoid stress is to look at the natural environment where a species lives and copy that to the aquarium conditions. That also includes space for movement if a species is active like Tropheus.
Dutch,
How does your research lab determine if a fish is stressed when you said that fish stress is extremely hard to detect?
We all have our fish confined in an aquarium, and according to you, they are stressed because of the confinement. How can you tell if a fish is more stressed in a 3' wide tank as opposed to a 6' wide tank? Both tanks are extremely confining when compared to the miles wide space they have in Lake Tanganyika.
How does your research lab determine if a fish is stressed when you said that fish stress is extremely hard to detect?
We all have our fish confined in an aquarium, and according to you, they are stressed because of the confinement. How can you tell if a fish is more stressed in a 3' wide tank as opposed to a 6' wide tank? Both tanks are extremely confining when compared to the miles wide space they have in Lake Tanganyika.
Really good measurements are extremely difficult. One possible measure for stress is the (blood)plasma cortisol level. Cortisol is what is known as a stress hormone and is used in a fish to allocate energy to compensate the effects of stress and restore normal homeostasis. The problem is that catching a fish already induces a peak in cortisol level. ("Netting" is a different standard way of inducing stress.)vfc;1497064; said:
The gills are also a good measure for stress, but it requires histological analysis, which means the fish have to be killed.
You're right, what's the difference between a 3' tank and a 6' tank compaired to lake Tanganyika? It's always sub-optimal. I think that for an aquarium a good measure would be to compair natural behavior to that in the aquarium. From what I understand (not my own experience) Tropheus display the most natural behavior in a group of ~30 while in a 260+ gallon tank. Fish have very complex behavior and a wide range of responses, so nature is the best measure available, but does require a keen and trained eye. Don't forget, there are (recent figures) around 35,000 species of fish. That means there are more species of fish than there are species of amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals combined. They occupy the most diverse niches/habitats. Just the family of Cichlidae has over 4,000 species. (Almost as many as the total number species of mammals!)
