Thai Silk has fungus maybe?

[BIG_ONE]

It all depends here if the tank is going to be cycled or not. And what do I mean by it depends on here? It depends on what your using to fill it back up. Those discus guys knows what they are doing, and they are not filling the tank up with tap water. They fill it back up with water that is perfect for the discus. I'm sure enough that those discus breeder doesn't use aged water, but water that has been running for some time to refill it. In this way, it contains all the nutrients it needs still to prevent from another round of cycling. Setting that aside, discus requires a whole different care level compare to FH. Much more demand actually if I was to say about discus as I use to be a discus fan. But not my liking after a while, boring fish(sorry if I offend any discus owner, but that is how I feel about it only and I don't have anything against them).
I would agree with both of you, but there is something that I would like to point out that you guys are missing on. Yes, as far as louhanfan has stated, 50% of water change or more and it can cause your entire tank to cycle all over. I have encounter this kind of stuff before, and it is mainly due to poorly aged water or the use of tap water(chlorine/chlorimine is most of the reason here as it saps most of the nutrient and kill off a lot of bio-bacteria). So yet again, yes it can be dangerous and cause your tank to cycle all over if your not doing WC properly for that matter. Do it properly and you can have a 99.9% water change and it would still not cycle(highly not recommended as it can be fatal to your FH).

 

[RD.]

have encounter this kind of stuff before, and it is mainly due to poorly aged water or the use of tap water(chlorine/chlorimine is most of the reason here as it saps most of the nutrient and kill off a lot of bio-bacteria)

I have no idea WTH either of you are talking about? Please explain to me how when properly using a water conditioner to treat ones tap water (chlorine or chloramine), nutrients are sapped, hence killing off bio-bacteria?

Again, that simply isn't true, and quite frankly is a bit frightening to me that someone would actually believe that. lol

I think that both of you need to go back & carefully re-read what I actually posted. If you still don't get it, there's not much more that I can say on the subject.




My apologies to the OP for the derail ..........

 

[BIG_ONE]

I'm pretty positive on my part here that chlorine kills nitrifying bacteria. I don't think a chemist professor of mine would lie to the whole class about it about it would he? I have also done some lab testing and studying with chlorine vs bacteria/bio-bacteria. You can also google it up for more information about it.
By the way, aged water just by letting it sit out on temp is poorly aged water conditioner. An aerator is what you'll only need. I deal with bettas a whole lot, and properly aged water is very crucial here. I don't think water aging has no differents from certain fish since it is just aging water here properly.

 

[RD.]

Please explain to me how when properly using a water conditioner to treat ones tap water (chlorine or chloramine), nutrients are sapped, hence killing off bio-bacteria?

Obviously straight untreated chlorine and/or chloramine are harmful to bio-bacteria.

No one suggested that anyone should be performing massive water changes using straight untreated tap water that contains chlorine or chlormaine.

You might want to actually read what's being stated before posting your responses.

 

[BIG_ONE]

You made your statements about properly treated tap water with a water conditioner. But I never said anything about doing 50% or more WC with water that has been properly treated with water conditioner did I?
A lot of FH keepers out there doesn't use any water conditioner at all for that matter of fact. So does this mean that you shouldn't too because it might be bad for your fish? No. But yet again, I only stated something that was not pointed out onto this thread. And using straight tap water or poorly aged water is what causes this entire tank cycle. I never had any disagreement on here with you or louhanfan. You both are correct in your own way. But the reason behind it is as what I have posted. Unless I am missing something on this thread that louhanfan stated about properly treating the tap water using some sort of water conditioner with 50% or more WC. And in return you get a tank doing it's cycle again. This is my experience and knowledge for the reason for a tank to go into the cycle process again due to large amount of water change. As I have said before, using tap water or poorly aged water is the issue here with the whole thing about your tank being recycling. This is also the same meaning as in not properly treating the water here. So it has nothing to do with the water being properly treated and still cause the tank to be cycle. Is everything clear now?

 

[RD.]

Sorry, I didn't realize that we were discussing mental midgets who perform large water changes adding untreated tap water that contains straight chlorine and/or chloramine.

Good thing that you cleared that up.

 

[BIG_ONE]

Sorry, I didn't realize that we were discussing mental midgets who perform large water changes adding untreated tap water that contains straight chlorine and/or chloramine.

Good thing that you cleared that up.

No problem.

 

[luohanfan]

ok, i have now rested and will try to explain..
Lets put aside untreated water as we know that will cause the exact problem i have stated already..

Like you said, treating for chlorine/chloramine will break the chlorine/ammonia bond, but also some treatments like "prime" for example, Bonds the ammonia to detoxify it..
treatments that do this would be bad to use in cases of big waterchanges, which im sure most people wouldnt know..

So, the jist is by cutting the supply of food to the bb it dies off (ammonia ). essentially the quicker you get to the dying food cuts the ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels delivered back into the water and cuts the regeneration required for the bb to get back to feasable filtration levels. make sense? if you starve a culture and then add excessive food it will start back at the beggining. hense called re-cycling. same thing is implied by adding too much fresh water that carries no ammonia. hope that made sense...

 

[RD.]

Actually no, that doesn't make any sense at all.

Water conditioners such as Prime, Seachem Safe, and ClorAm-X, bind the free ammonia which converts the NH3 to a form that is non toxic to fish, but that NH3 is still immediately available to the bio-bacteria.

If you don't believe me, contact Dr. Greg Morin at Seachem. He has a PhD in this "stuff", and will be happy to explain it all in great detail.

 

[luohanfan]

Thankyou, i will contact him, as i have never really gone into depth as to WHY recycling occurs with large waterchanges, but i do know it happens quite often..
(different BB is responsible for converting Ammonia, than the BB that converts nitrite)

As the BB responsible for converting ammonia to nitrite will die off due to lack of ammonia, it will take a while to establish again, therfore the BB responsible for converting nitrite to nitrates will die off too as the ammonia isnt being converted to nitrite on demand..

Anyway, i would like to hear more opinions, as i know re-cycling due to big waterchanges to be factual.. i will contact DR Greg Morin..
Thankyou for the details, and for the discussion..