Received a new bottle of Safe the other day. Here are the directions on the bottle. Different than I expected.The Dumbing Down of Seachem
- Thread starter RD.
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Received a new bottle of Safe the other day. Here are the directions on the bottle. Different than I expected.
I realize this is an oldish thread, but for some reason i just found it. In regards to SeaChem I can say they offer both good and bad advice and products. I have used their liquid ferts and Excel for years, I just began using a bit of Equilibrium in a couple of tanks (below what they suggest because I do not need a normal amount).
However, my beef with them is an honesty issue the same as the original reason for this post You can decide for yourself from the following.
It has been known for some time what bacteria in tanks are working on ammonia and nitrite. The ammonia and nitrite oxidizing bacteria are aerobic, chemotrophic (they do not use organic food) and they reproduce by binary division (they divide). They do not form spores. Another term often used for them is autotrophic. About 20 years ago the thinking was that the nitrite oxidizers in tanks were Nitrobacter. It turned out they were actually Nitrospira. Neither forms spores.
http://www.seachem.com/Library/SeaGrams/Biofiltration.pdf
Now, let's consider one of their current popular products, Stability. This is supposed to be for helping one cycle a tank or with cycling related issues. You can find this in the SeaChem FAQ section for Stability (I added the bold, italics and underline below):
The last paragraph above is complete BS and is half truths and outright misinformation. The bacteria are able to sense when the ammonia or oxygen they need is not available and they respond by going into a state of dormancy. The colony can remain almost 100% viable for 6 months to a year (when kept cooler) and when in good condition when they go dormant. After that they are dying. Dormant bacteria have no need to eat. Adding year+ old bottled living bacteria will put some number into a tank, but that will not be enough to get it cycled much faster than had you not added it.
It is also important to understand that the temperatures it takes to kill the bacteria are 32F or lower (i.e. freezing) and they should not be kept above 95F for any amount of time. How many of us keep tanks near these temps. Even running the peak of a dry season for my plecos my water temp. only goes over 90F by more than 1 or 2 degrees and not for very long (a week maybe two). When it comes to temperature you can treat the bacteria the same way you treat your fish.
Again, sorry for reviving an older thread.
However, my beef with them is an honesty issue the same as the original reason for this post You can decide for yourself from the following.
It has been known for some time what bacteria in tanks are working on ammonia and nitrite. The ammonia and nitrite oxidizing bacteria are aerobic, chemotrophic (they do not use organic food) and they reproduce by binary division (they divide). They do not form spores. Another term often used for them is autotrophic. About 20 years ago the thinking was that the nitrite oxidizers in tanks were Nitrobacter. It turned out they were actually Nitrospira. Neither forms spores.
The above comes from a SeaChem pdf I bookmarked it years ago:
http://www.seachem.com/Library/SeaGrams/Biofiltration.pdf
Now, let's consider one of their current popular products, Stability. This is supposed to be for helping one cycle a tank or with cycling related issues. You can find this in the SeaChem FAQ section for Stability (I added the bold, italics and underline below):
https://www.seachem.com/stability.php
The last paragraph above is complete BS and is half truths and outright misinformation. The bacteria are able to sense when the ammonia or oxygen they need is not available and they respond by going into a state of dormancy. The colony can remain almost 100% viable for 6 months to a year (when kept cooler) and when in good condition when they go dormant. After that they are dying. Dormant bacteria have no need to eat. Adding year+ old bottled living bacteria will put some number into a tank, but that will not be enough to get it cycled much faster than had you not added it.
It is also important to understand that the temperatures it takes to kill the bacteria are 32F or lower (i.e. freezing) and they should not be kept above 95F for any amount of time. How many of us keep tanks near these temps. Even running the peak of a dry season for my plecos my water temp. only goes over 90F by more than 1 or 2 degrees and not for very long (a week maybe two). When it comes to temperature you can treat the bacteria the same way you treat your fish.
Again, sorry for reviving an older thread.
LOL, sorry, I missed your point. Not that this discussion had anything to do with Stability. Are you saying that bacteria cannot live in spore form, or that Stability does not work as advertised. If so, my experience with this product would suggest otherwise. There are old threads on this subject as well, if you care to search them out.
bugs in a bottle...? | MonsterFishKeepers.com
bugs in a bottle...? | MonsterFishKeepers.com
I am saying that the science shows the nitrifiers in our tanks are the aerobic, autotrophic bacteria which do not form spores, they divide.
SeaChem even acknowledged that in the article I quoted and linked. But it had the wromg auutroph listed for nitrite oxidizing, but it was still one which does not peoduce spores.
Stability contains only spores. So there cannot be Nitrosomas in Stability. There cannot be Nitrospira or Nitrobacter either. These must still colonize for one to have a cycled tank in the long run.
Furthermore, what SeaChem states about the bacteria that will axtually be in tanks long after most of what is in their bottle is not, is factually wrong. Yes, they can die at given temps, temps which are well below and above those we would willingly have in our tanks. Do not let them greeze and do not let them get above 95F for any lenth of time. Where here keeps fish at either 32F or 95F?
That is my point. Seachem not only tried to dumb things down, they also distorted the facts. SeaChem cannot produce one published peer reviewed paper re Stability as far as I know. But I have found many papers to support what I stated about the nitrifying bacteria.
SeaChem even acknowledged that in the article I quoted and linked. But it had the wromg auutroph listed for nitrite oxidizing, but it was still one which does not peoduce spores.
Stability contains only spores. So there cannot be Nitrosomas in Stability. There cannot be Nitrospira or Nitrobacter either. These must still colonize for one to have a cycled tank in the long run.
Furthermore, what SeaChem states about the bacteria that will axtually be in tanks long after most of what is in their bottle is not, is factually wrong. Yes, they can die at given temps, temps which are well below and above those we would willingly have in our tanks. Do not let them greeze and do not let them get above 95F for any lenth of time. Where here keeps fish at either 32F or 95F?
That is my point. Seachem not only tried to dumb things down, they also distorted the facts. SeaChem cannot produce one published peer reviewed paper re Stability as far as I know. But I have found many papers to support what I stated about the nitrifying bacteria.
