The End All Red Tail Catfish debate thread!!!! :)

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
im growing out a rtc right now in my 6x2x2 180 for my friends pond, i got him at about 4" and i swear he hit 6.5" in two weeks.. and hes growing wider real fast too. he devours massivore until his belly is bulging :)


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This should be interesting. I'll stand back and let the monkey poo hit someone else for once. The only thing I have to add is that growth in any fish species is very dependent on factors that we as keepers can control. The fish just has to eat, poo, and grow!!! Now if the fish don't eat, then obviously he won't poo, or grow! So basically you are looking to split into size groups Juvie, Subadult, and Adult? What do you consider an adult? I know I threw those last two in there. Remember RTC become sexually mature at a relatively small size in comparison to what they have a potential for. At the end of it though the RTC must survive decades to reach a true max size! So a max size is really what size the fish survive til. So at his biggest he dies! So if one died at 2" and another dies at 12" the max size would be 12", and the average would be 6". This is an example also. I'm just looking to fuel the debate some. :)

that's why I'm askin, I've got no clue. hahahaha :ROFL:but to be distinctive, let's just go to the average time span, means how many months to years and size they take up as they grow, we do know it's in genetics, water quality, food, etc. but on the average growth of an average RTC, could someone help? I don't have any catfish yet, but we do on the dining table so I can't give any info.
 
I Just found it interesting that stuffing a catfish in a glass box of equal cost of a 1k "diy" set-up is preferable by some people... I would also like to go on the record that being 6 monthes pregnant, having a 20month old.. building from brick/concrete/ect was not an option... did I mention the part about being on restrictions? however spending a healthy chunk of change on a "temporary" set-up for more then just my catfish was an option... the only other option I had was to re-home fish that we are all aware of are almost impossible to re-home properly. Instead of force my fish to become stunted in small tanks like most people do I went w/ a "less then nice looking" set-up but meets my pets needs.

These are living breathing beings, not artwork... Same goes for my old thoroughbred horse... he lives in a 10acer field w/ other horses and comes into a comfy, safe old barn at night to sleep. It is not a state of the art 2k a month boarding barn w/ the latest and greatest innovations. Somewhere people started thinking "looks" where more important then function and health. My fish are rarely if ever sick, and I lose fish generally to freak instances not from predation from other tank-mates crammed into to small a tank, poor water quality or filtration.

I feed Mostly live food, and augment that with high quality pellets... Instead of spending 10k on a glass box.. I spent 2k on a pool and my fish eat better then most people I know do.

My fish also tend to reach wild average sizes or better, so it doesn't bother me if people disagree with what I do. But it does bother me to say your a better caretaker because I use elbow grease and ingenuity to accomplish what others have to toss money at to accomplish the same means. I enjoy sitting on a barstool in our basement and feeding our fish which btw I can see just fine. my catfish don't bash their faces on the walls and hurt themselves... the gar don't spook and have PLENTY of swimming space... none of my fish have issues turning and at the end of the week when I change 500 gallons of water which we pay for every drop... my nitrates are rarely over 5ppm.

Prove to me i'm doing something "wrong" and I am more then happy to learn and improve my ways.. but telling me to put my fish in a glass box 1/2 the size of a lined pool ( I was advised to line it from the get-go but I learned my lesson and learned it well) and I'll tell you exactly how backwards you have your priorities for your pets. I would also love to know how to bring a 1k gallon glass or acrylic tank down a basement flight of stairs ect.... I simply would not be able to get anything remotely as large as the pool in our basement unless I built it myself or paid someone else to do it. ( and since this is our last child we do plan on something much more permanent and plan on doing most of the work ourselves, But right now its not doable.)

I've spent more in "careing" for my fish in the past 3 monthes then what the initial set-up cost... funny how people think the tank and equipment is the expensive part.

/rant off

Not trying to fight or argue but had to get that off my chest... I like how people assume things.

OH and running duel dehumidifiers 24/7 is very inexpensive I might add ;)

I can't imagine my fish back in a small cramped tank now that I've seen them actually swim more then a few paces and back again in a glass box.

I have never said stuff them in a glass tank

You being preg just shows me that people should think before buying a long term Commitment like a red tail as no one can Predict what will happen 1 year down the line

I lost both my legs 2 years ago I know it was coming so I set up my 1000 gal to house the fish long term that I had kept for over 8 years rather than give them up

How many times do we hear that people was going to upgrade but they are moving house now

If I was moving I wouldn't buy a house that couldn't house my fish


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I have never said stuff them in a glass tank

You being preg just shows me that people should think before buying a long term Commitment like a red tail as no one can Predict what will happen 1 year down the line

I lost both my legs 2 years ago I know it was coming so I set up my 1000 gal to house the fish long term that I had kept for over 8 years rather than give them up

How many times do we hear that people was going to upgrade but they are moving house now

If I was moving I wouldn't buy a house that couldn't house my fish


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Or a horse, dog, cat, ect?..

I didn't know number 2 was coming.... I was content w/ one kid. WE had no plans of having another in the near future if at all.

But I'm not going to NOT keep pets because "what might happen"

we could lose our house, my husband could get shot at work, I could walk outside and get hit by a truck... I lived my life that way once.

You're right a lot of people do say they are going to upgrade but never do ( usually it isn't because they can't afford it, but because they don't want to.)

We specifically bought this house because it filled all of our needs as a family, and as fish keepers ( we already owned large fish that we knew needed more space in the future and planned accordingly). The only thing I'de change is add some acerage so I could bring my horse home instead of board him.

We don't have a second car so we can afford to keep our pets, a Choice. And not one I regret though some days It would be nice to not have to wait until hubby gets home to run some errands or just get out for abit.

I try to embrace people who want to do the best they can by their pets and themselves not tell them "you can't do it"... Having lost your legs ( which btw I am sorry, my grandfather lost one of his legs in his 40's from diabetes complications so i'm not compleately ignorant to how you must feel some days.) I'm not even gonna touch on that personal a level but only say never listen to anyone who says you "Can't" It's about finding a way to accomplish the "unaccomplishable" by most peoples standards ( most people are idiots, and I know I have my own moments.)

If you want something bad enough, are dedicated to it, and are realistic about your own capabilities ( not what other tell you you can and can not do) nothing is out of reach. One of the major things my parents taught me and they didn't even realize it, both coming from pretty poor military familys.

I think we can agree that buying a big cat ( any big fish for that matter) is a HUGE commitment and words can't really describe it. More then a dog or cat. not sure where I said it but we spend as much on our fish a month as we do a 1,200lb horse.... Most people don't or won't commit to a horse either ( or shouldn't) it's not a decision that should be made lightly.

Some of the "best" fish keepers I've met bought a big fish on a whim.. did abit of research... and went.. "lets do this!" but.. far more go "Ooooh crap!" either people are going to take it on... or they are not.. and really I've just learned to ignore those that don't take it seriosuely. Because they won't or don't want to listen to good advise from people like TBTB, Necro here... Sol, Richard in gars... Brian over in arrowana... ect... ( many others if I named everyone id hurt someones feelings) As a collective the ray guys ( you all bicker more then teenage girls over there so I just stay out of the way now, expressing oppinions over there gets you flamed. But there is a wealth of knowledge to be found.) Not a cichlid person so I rarely have anything to add/say unless its a curiosity Q. This forum wouldn't be so popular if as a collective there wheren't some great people here. If there wheren't people "living it" people would still be keeping goldfish in glass bowls and RTC's in 55's would be OK... and stingrays in 75's or 125's would be normal.. There would be no improvement in husbandry practices accepted and encouraged. Very few people go out and buy a 75 for a guppy... people and fish always seem to work for "the minimum" which is why I like this forum so much there are others like me who aren't satisfied with that.

You take great pride in your accomplishments as a fishkeeper.. you should.. but so do I and others. I might not "be there yet" but every day I try... and for that I think is the only way to Do.

Now how do I step offa my soap box w/out busting my hiney? :banher:
 
My experiences and observations on the pond/aquarium debate:

Pond allows better surface interaction/hand feeding and an aquarium allows better side viewing/through-glass type interaction.

Pond builds can be much less expensive but are more difficult to fit into an indoor decor than an aquarium build.

Ponds can be made with sides that give when struck by a skittish fish and an aquarium cannot but may prevent the skittish fish from being startled by the keeper.

Pond filtration takes up additional space and many aquariums allow for filtration under the tank.

Ponds often require a cover when in a cooler area which limits viewing or adds labor and aquariums can be covered with all but the front panel insulated without limiting viewing.

IMO a pond or aquarium of equal dimensions is as good as the other for the fish and the preference/budget of the keeper should be the deciding factor. If budget permits, most likely it will but circumstances and priorities change, when I do my next upgrade I will be building a plywood pond at ground level with a large viewing window, I miss the surface interaction I had with a previous cat kept in a pool/liner pond and also enjoy being able to view my fish from the side. If budget falls a little short, no window. If budget or time constraints don't allow a build then I'll be going with the intex pool/liner and I see that as perfectly acceptable long-term housing for my cats.
 
This is going smoother than expected tnx guys. Very constructive so far.

So let me add a new topic. We well know rtc eat anything that fits in their mouth. So whats better bare bottom with no decor, sand bottom no decor. Rock bottom no decor. Mix sand and rock, or rocks plants and whatever else u want to throw in? Or whatever combo you come up with. Maybe it evolves over time? Start young with plenty of hiding spots and remove obsticals as it grows?
 
For me it has to be a tank

Even a pond with a front panel is just a waste in my opinion as to use it you need to sit on the floor to see deep to the back

A pond has other problems as the main view is from the top but to stop condensation and fish jumping out you need to cover the top blocking your only view

Its also a risk if you have small children as they may fall in and drown
I'm not sure how the law stands on indoor ponds but if its outdoor it needs to be fenced in to stop children drowning

You can build a ply wood tank for the same price as a well made pond

I pond is for outdoor use with fish that have been bred to look nice when viewed from above for example koi




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This is going smoother than expected tnx guys. Very constructive so far.

So let me add a new topic. We well know rtc eat anything that fits in their mouth. So whats better bare bottom with no decor, sand bottom no decor. Rock bottom no decor. Mix sand and rock, or rocks plants and whatever else u want to throw in? Or whatever combo you come up with. Maybe it evolves over time? Start young with plenty of hiding spots and remove obsticals as it grows?

I have found with most the large cats that less is more.. I utilize PVC tubes when young ( lets face it they outgrow them quickly, are easy to sterilize, and the fish utilize them.) as they approach "adult sizes" and slow their growth I prefer a fine gravel bottom...more like a course sand. Because if swallowed its likely to pass threw easily, and its heavy enough when they dart ect it doesn't cloud your water/get into filters/ stir up like all heck. For hide spots I like clay flower pots planted ( I've used these now in a few set-ups and they are nice to use if you want live plants but don't want the hassle of re-rooting ect all the time. They are breakable so depends if you have a real bruiser in the tank imo. I have also seen coco style pots made for hydroponics stuff that I am thinking about trying in the future, it may get ripped but won't shatter like clay can. )and pieces of driftwood that are wide and deep opposed to high... something that can be pushed around safely yet afford hiding along or under it. Imo anything that can get tossed around and break glass/rip liners should be avoided. So dw edges need to be blunt but I also think sharp dw edges potentially could harm a startled fish that darted at it looking to hide. I also like floating plants ( preferably fake) to afford hide spots for other predatory fish though my TSN when younger enjoyed hanging out in them as well.

I have found the old adage about community fish to apply to most fish " The more hide spots they have, the safer they feel. The more you actually see them"

The trick for me has been finding things that won't hurt my fish, 'nore my set-ups since even a 10" cat I've learned has a lot more strength then they appear to have.
 
For me it has to be a tank

Even a pond with a front panel is just a waste in my opinion as to use it you need to sit on the floor to see deep to the back

A pond has other problems as the main view is from the top but to stop condensation and fish jumping out you need to cover the top blocking your only view

Its also a risk if you have small children as they may fall in and drown
I'm not sure how the law stands on indoor ponds but if its outdoor it needs to be fenced in to stop children drowning

You can build a ply wood tank for the same price as a well made pond

I pond is for outdoor use with fish that have been bred to look nice when viewed from above for example koi




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Makes absolute sense and some great points... our basement is a "kid free zone" and the door atm doesn't have a lock on it but will in the future to keep the kids out ( Our daughter would have to get threw 2 gates she isn't allowed to go threw w/out supervision, threw our kitchen, open a door, go down the stairs, around a corner..But is indeed a concern once she gets abit older and we already have the new doorknobs ect hubby just needs to make time to install it.). VOC's where a huge concern for me and my daughter as well when looking up our options on building a ply build vs "pool" build. You can line a plywood build w/ a liner but to me it wasn't any different then the pool build and the extra "give" from spooks ect was a bonus for me.

The biggest "issue" we've tackled that we thought would be much less is humidity... we bought a standard rated dehumidifier for the house rated abit above what you need would normally need.... we quickly realized we needed a second! we are now on the list w/ out local water treatment center for a refurbished commercial grade.... the ones we have work but are extreamely cost prohibitive. the commercial one will likely set us back 1k alone but its for the house itself as much as the tanks and w/ the rest of our tanks running as well.. it just makes sense to go big.

We seem to have hit a point in the hobby where there are fewer and fewer people "doing it" that advise is scarce and the $$ is getting to the point you have a hard time just taking advise over the internet from a stranger...It gets very frustrating sometimes. And we're also tailoring things more specifically to our own vision of what we want vs whats "usually done" So when you and others are like "omg why a pond?" I deffinately get it. It comes down to preferences, and personal opinion, and how you would spend your own money.

If I was better with all this tech stuff i'de draw up the final plan in some software and post a pic about it ect... our end goal includes our bar ( which will be refurbished to all match) seating, tropical planting/hydroponics ( I'm a big organic buff and love to garden as well as keep fish and they go together pretty well. =) ) ect... 1/2 of our basement will be dedicated to the "fish" and will be the "adult room" atm it's a dream but we get closer to the final product each day we learn something new in bettering our fishes lives by housing/filtration/handeling humidity in our house, ect... Something about handling the little things and the big ones will take care of themselves or some such.
 
For me it has to be a tank

Even a pond with a front panel is just a waste in my opinion as to use it you need to sit on the floor to see deep to the back

A pond has other problems as the main view is from the top but to stop condensation and fish jumping out you need to cover the top blocking your only view

Its also a risk if you have small children as they may fall in and drown
I'm not sure how the law stands on indoor ponds but if its outdoor it needs to be fenced in to stop children drowning

You can build a ply wood tank for the same price as a well made pond

I pond is for outdoor use with fish that have been bred to look nice when viewed from above for example koi




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In my opinion, or rather preference, id love the outdoor/indoor pond with a viewing panel. The only down side for me is cleaning and just general maintenance. I cant help but feel extremely limited by glass tanks.

sir, how big of a tank or whats the gradual progression in the increase of the size of the tank are you proposing again sir?


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