The Hypocrite thread mbu

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RD.;5022183; said:
I know exactly who RTR is, and I have read the vast majority of his articles on puffers, maybe even all of them. I didn't say that I had no respect for the man personally, or his vast experience with puffers.
But the reality is his personal experience with mbu is very limited, obviously, or he would have known that a 180 gallon tank wasn't going to cut it long term. So after he one day wakes he realizes that the answer is not a 180 gallon tank, but a 1,000 gallon tank, that is now echoed as puffer gospel for all times? Think about it.

To take a single isolated incident, of a mbu kept in a tank that was obviously going to be FAR too small once that fish began to mature, hardly equates to any type of hard data as to the min size of tank required to keep a mbu thriving in captivity long term. Both RTR & Stuart Morse clearly didn't understand this species long term requirements, but that doesn't mean that everyone & anyone else that attempts to keep a mbu in captivity is going to follow their lead, anymore than it requires 1,000 gallon system in order to fulfill this species needs.

Yes mbu puffers need a big ass tank, no one is arguing that point, but to pigeonhole this fish into 1,000 gallon minimum tank size is ridiculous.
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+55 LOL, I just do not see how this number for all suggested keepers could come from a stent of a SINGLE attempt to raise a MBU in a now known tank that was obviously too small.
 
The problem with these sorts of arguments is that they are entirely subjective. What is "best" is very much defined by the person. Some might say that any captive housing is wrong, as it compromises wild behaviour.

The argument I find best is the comparison of the Fahaka and Mbu "minimum" tank sizes. If a 2x2x4 120 is okay for a 18" fish and we extrapolate the dimensions for a 24" Mbu based on the same ratio, we'd end up with a tank 32"x32"x64" or 283 gallons. I understand there may be a difference in activity level, but it's still a huge increase in comparative water volume.
 
SimonL;5023932; said:
The problem with these sorts of arguments is that they are entirely subjective. What is "best" is very much defined by the person. Some might say that any captive housing is wrong, as it compromises wild behaviour.

The argument I find best is the comparison of the Fahaka and Mbu "minimum" tank sizes. If a 2x2x4 120 is okay for a 18" fish and we extrapolate the dimensions for a 24" Mbu based on the same ratio, we'd end up with a tank 32"x32"x64" or 283 gallons. I understand there may be a difference in activity level, but it's still a huge increase in comparative water volume.
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This is EXACTLY how I came to determine my decision in buying my 300 gallon for my Mbu....even though he is only 6 inches right now LOL
 
What about the difference in masses of these species & bioload produced by them? We are now upping the minimum tank size for the fahaka at around 180g.
 
The difference in mass is accounted for by the volume of the tank I'd say, the above calculation gives more than 2.3x increase in volume for a 30% increase in length.

With a 180 as minimum for a fahaka, the scaled up tank for a 24" Mbu would be 32"x32"x96" or 425 gallons.

I agree there may be variances in bioload, but I'm curious to know what the difference actually is. Does a Mbu physically produce more waste than a fahaka of the same size?
 
I doubt it, I think that is also something almost impossible to determine as it varies by diet and also amount. I feed my puffers A LOT, but I also water change every other day without fail. If I were to decrease feeding the bioload would also decrease.
 
Does a Mbu physically produce more waste than a fahaka of the same size?
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I'd say at the same length, their mass/biolad would be equal but the mbu far surpasses the fahaka's max size.
 
Wouldn't be that hard, you just need two puffers of the same size, plus tanks with identical setups and feeding regimes. Test water chem and compare.

I'd say at the same length, their mass/biolad would be equal but the mbu far surpasses the fahaka's max size.
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Okay, so why does the Mbu need a proportionately larger tank if the waste production/bioload is the same? Would a 24" Fahaka need a 1000 gallon tank for example?
 
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