The Law of Supply & Demand doesnt work!!

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jcardona1;1851698; said:
yup, there will be many lifestyle changes coming up. the thing with GM is big. could this be the end of giganto SUV's and trucks?

There are still your "self indulgent weiners with too much bloody money" out there still. They crap bills, and will continue their luxurious lifestlyes.

But for the most part. I have seen a huge increase of economy cars and a huge decrease in things like HUMMER H2's. Just a year ago, i used to see them all day long. Now, sightings are becoming sporatic.

Did you know the average price of SUV's has dropped $2,300 since September?!
People that ARE trying to unload them, cant because they cant get what they still owe on them.
 
jcardona1;1851698; said:
yup, there will be many lifestyle changes coming up. the thing with GM is big. could this be the end of giganto SUV's and trucks?

I saw a woman driving a diesel excursion the other day.. As I sat at the light puzzled and confused when deisel here is close to $5.00/g. I don't think this will be the end. But production will slow(as seen) and those will be left for the higher incomes. And many will be stuck with SUV's/Trucks that they have no equity in and can't get out of for a few years.

I've already considered a motorcycle again due to gas prices.

Also this isn't like the real estate market. That will eventually pick up, gas prices I don't see going a whole lot lower. IMO I see it as a time for change if you can and are having a hard time with fuel prices. If you don't have a high mpg car or even secondary car IMO get one.

^^Opps she said it.. lol
 
another thing ive noticed lately is that used car lots are flooded with big trucks and SUV's. i can get me a cadillac escalade with 26's and act like a baller for like $18k :ROFL: so funny how fast the value drops on these huge piles of junk :ROFL:
 
Yeah I saw a H2 for 24k at a dealer the other day..
 
Gas is killer here in Socal, not as bad as some places, but damn. If we would just stop exporting our oil, we'd be so much better off. We wouldn't be prisoners of OPEC and we wouldn't even need to drill in new places, at least not for a while. Having Bush as president hasn't helped, considering what his fortune is made on...

Anyway, some French guys made a car that runs on compressed air. Check it out. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/28/tech/main2135518.shtml

It's hideous, and slow, but it sure is practical. We have too many high speed collisions, anyway.
 
Nekojin;1851667; said:
I'm sitting watching the news. Taking it all in and reflecting on the last year.

This downward spiral to crapytown is going quickly. I predict that we'll reach a real crisis point in the next couple of years. The government will have to sink or swim. They'll need to crack down on the oil companies and either implement gas rationing, start drilling all our own oil or implement a new way to power vehicles.

There are proven methods out there. Methods that work and are even more environmentally friendly. We just need a government that has the balls to say. We're doing this now. But right now its all special interest. Thats one of the main problems.

We're in for a ride.


I heard President Bush talking about this exact thing the other day. He said they wanted to drill here, but basically "aren't allowed".
 
hamato_yoshii;1851823; said:
I heard President Bush talking about this exact thing the other day. He said they wanted to drill here, but basically "aren't allowed".
Well, there are some good reasons they can't just drill anywhere they please. The problem is the oil that's being produced from those areas they've already drilled is owned by private interests and going places other than back to the US. I just don't think it makes sense that a country that produces oil sells it away and then has to buy it from other countries.
 
i say drilling in alaska in the answer. 10 billion barrels of oil just sitting there. we'd prob by paying $2/gallon right now
 
We can drill off of Florida and California too...but nnnoooo, we gotta save the seals. Damn seals...

We also need more refineries built but environmental restrictions have made that difficult too.

I just dont understand when people say we "took over Iraq for their oil." If so wouldnt we be paying less by now?!
 
I agree, things are so out of hand right now. Sad thing is, this is nothing that happened overnight, but rather something that we were all aware of (at least those of us without our heads up our rears), and knew it was bound to happen. There are paid "professionals" and various scientists, mathematicians, ecologists and others who are employed by the government for the sole purpose of tracking, documenting, and projecting issues exactly like this, and I am sorry but you will never get me to believe that they didn't see it coming, or that they kept their mouths shut. I won't lie, I voted for Bush to serve a second term. I thought he did a fairly good job the first-go-around, and that our economy was in relatively stable and good standing. But I never would have guessed he could have screwed it up this bad, and especially within the last year and 1/2, I have lost all faith in him and his cabinet, and have watched news reports only to want to bang my head on a wall more times than I can count.
When it comes to alternative fuels - sure there will be some, I mean we didn't always have refined oil to rely on. The oil was always there but it took us quite a while to figure out how to utilize it. When it comes to fuels such as electricity, water, vegetable oil, etc., etc., sure, we could probably make any of them work. But the problem is not only in finding alternative fuel sources, but also in opening our eyes to the destruction we place on the environment, and the depletion of the natural sources that are available to us. Humans are greedy, and don't think for a second that if we came up with a solid alternative fuel, in hope of removing our "nuggets" from the iron grip the middle-east has on them right now, that we would be free from worry. Oh no, it would only be a matter of time before we ran into crisis with those fuels as well - For one, vegetables are a huge consumable product and staple of the American diet and economy, and each require specific care and climates for proper production and reproduction. If you start trying to hone in on an energy source such as that, you would need to basically monopolize HUGE expanses of fields all over the country if you even had a slight chance of producing enough resources to fuel America. Secondly, what kind of impact would that hold on the consumer? Would select vegetables become unavailable for consumption because the government needed them all? Would prices of the raw product in grocery stores reach ridiculous amounts? Things like that. If water or electricity were used as a sole source, there are factors you would need to consider as well. Now I agree that water would be the best fuel - if it were to "burn" clean, but even with something like that - which seems so perfect, there are still things one MUST consider!
For instance - our available resources of fresh water are not endless, and unless they wanted to re-create every element of an engine - eliminating all metals, then seawater would pretty much be out of the question as well, as you would need to flush your engine regularly, and it would need to be replaced every few years - if not sooner from corrosion. Plus one must consider the water cycle. Yes that's right, lets all jump back into 6th grade physical science. The oceans produce the mass majority of our planet's precipitation, which as we know - is caused by evaporation, and later collection into clouds, to fall back onto land. Evaporation from lakes, streams and rivers pale in comparison to the awesomeness of the oceans. Because of this you would need to stop and consider the effects of what would happen if humans started utilizing water as their main fuel source. Sure our pollution levels would plummet significantly, but what about other factors, here is a little something to chew on::::
- As I stated, evaporation from the oceans is the majority source of precipitation we receive on land in the form of rain, hail or snow.
- As water evaporates from the oceans, salt is left behind, increasing the salinity
- However, with the constant run-off from Streams, Rivers, etc., fresh water is constantly flowing into the ocean, balancing the chemistry so that no significant change is ever present. Nature is a miracle like that.
- If humans were to use water as our main fuel, without aggressive regulation and monitoring, not to mention new technologies which would further efficiency - One of two things would happen:
1. We would use fresh water, pulling from reserves (reservoirs, dams), rivers, lakes and streams. If we did this, we would be directly interfering with the balance of nature, reducing the amount of freshwater that freely runs into oceanic bodies, replenishing and balancing out the effects of it's mass evaporation. The result of that would be a potential spike in oceanic salinity, affecting everything from animal to plant life within it, as well as those who rely on the oceans for survival (Penguins, Polar Bears, Seals, Sea Lions, Otters, and many more). Evaporation from the oceans would still continue, and from which precipitation would still fall, replenishing fresh water reserves - making idiotic humans think it was the "perfect" plan.
2. We would use saltwater, pulling directly from oceans, bays, etc. Unless we discovered a way to efficiently turn the salt into fuel, it would need to be removed, otherwise the entire system would be compromised from corrosion. If we pulled from the oceans, and had to desalinize all that water, by the time it was fresh enough to use, we would have had to pull hundreds of gallons from the ocean in order to make maybe a few dozen gallons of the "purified" water. There is soooo much waste that goes into that process, its unbelievable.
And imagine that on a national scale!! That would be several hundreds of millions of gallons being pulled from seas DAILY!!! With that type of withdrawal, there is a whole plethora of consequences which could result ecologically. Plus you would be diminishing the overall volume and balance of the chemistries, and with that - if you still had fresh water resources flowing in at relatively the same rate as before, you could face lowering the salinity, which is just a nightmare I don't even want to get into!
On the other hand another thing to consider, is how it would effect our climate. With millions of gallons of water being "burned" as fuel daily, you would have such a significant amount of additional evaporation taking place that it would overload the natural cycle, probably resulting in high levels of humidity nation wide, increased rain/snow fall, a potential influx of violent storms, hurricanes, etc., not to mention floods and landslides in areas already naturally at risk for such.
Nothing is ever as simple as "this will work, let's use it". Everything needs to be considered, and quite honestly, I am all for alternative fuels, but I do not believe that at this point, we could effectively and responsibly control the consumption of any that we chose. Perhaps if several fuels were brought to the table, a balancing act could be accomplished, but either way, it would be up to the government and the consumer to be responsible with such, and i just don't foresee that happening in the state we are in now.
 
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