The real BATMAN
- Thread starter csx4236
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DavidW;3357458; said:without an elite what is there to aspire to? everything would become average
“Innovation is the whim of an elite before it becomes a need of the public.”
Ludwig von Mises
“Each honest calling, each walk of life, has its own elite, its own aristocracy based on excellence of performance.”
James Bryant Conant
yet you state to euthanize it.........
i think they are awesome... and id deff have to agree wit hthe early development not genetic @ all...i think if it were genetic we would see alot more of them by now...its just one of those things...for all we know i could be because the pup was in a odd position while developing or a number of other issues. Karma has a bigger batman...happy and healthy. You have to admire natures creativity
I think it has to be a developmental problem that is effected by muliple things. I've suspected that genetics/inbreeding may play a role since it seems to occur more frequently in P motoro and the hyrids, but it could be seen more frequently there because they are bred more often. I don't know of other leos with this defect yet, but again it could be because they haven't been bred as much/as long. I wonder if stress during pregnancy plays a role. Annecdotal evidence from discussions suggest that it might, IMO.
Mike- anything different about this pregnancy? I know you have a lot more rays than when I saw your place. Temps during summer any different? I'd love to hear how this pregnancy went.
Mike- anything different about this pregnancy? I know you have a lot more rays than when I saw your place. Temps during summer any different? I'd love to hear how this pregnancy went.
amazongirl;3357630; said:
Temperature was constant 85 not much variation, Both parents are wild caught and this female is 5 years old and it's only here third litter in last year. We ruled out inbreeding as we know thats not case. Could be stress related this female is in the large pond with 10 other mature females and 1-2 males so there is always stress from fighting and breeding. I was not even aware she was pregnant again based on here size around 26" and that she was only carrying one pup I could not see any indication of pregnancy at all. One thing did happen in last month, all rays in this pond went off there normal feeding routine. Instead of average of 4 lbs food day they went down to 1.5 per day for awhile and really slowed down. But those numbers always change depending on number of pregnant females in pond, more pregnant at once more they will consume in food. Very hard to say we have also been adding in alot of wild caught rays in last year, but those are always quarantined for minimum of 2-3 months before there added into main system. If can think of anything else will add later.
I was thinking of temperature fluctuation, but with your information, it could be lack of nutrition, certain vitamin, as stated before.csx4236;3357905; said:
I wish more info was around about these sitautions.
There has to be a path we can trace that leads to preventing defects in rays.
Water parameters, diet, genetics are all thing we think might be factors, they are all things we can document - yet nobody has when it leads to this (that I know of anyway).
Maybe someday.
There has to be a path we can trace that leads to preventing defects in rays.
Water parameters, diet, genetics are all thing we think might be factors, they are all things we can document - yet nobody has when it leads to this (that I know of anyway).
Maybe someday.
We have talked about this quite a lot in previous threads.
It is a statistical improbability that it is from a genetic cause, given some of the reported birth patterns.
It is therefore environmental.
Diet, Temp , stress, any factor you can think of might be the cause.
Temperature is an obvious choice ( which also creates its own kind of stress) . Dietary deficiency is also a possible reason, lacking essential amino acids or minerals, or the converse, too much fat? wrong proteins?
( incorrect) Temperature is known to cause birth defects in many animals, gender determining in others.
We know that year round conditions in the various Amazon tributaries are not as high as 85 or even 80 F.
Why euthanize?
because it takes resources from another potentially healthy ray ( Mike is not in this just for the fun, he needs to make $$'s and not have charity cases eating any profits, and rays ain;t cheap to raise) )
From a health point of view everything about batman rays is undesirable. Why attempt to breed something so terminally messed up? Everyone agrees it is a defect.
Why euthanize me?
can't think of a good reason not to frankly, but " up yours" anyway
It is a statistical improbability that it is from a genetic cause, given some of the reported birth patterns.
It is therefore environmental.
Diet, Temp , stress, any factor you can think of might be the cause.
Temperature is an obvious choice ( which also creates its own kind of stress) . Dietary deficiency is also a possible reason, lacking essential amino acids or minerals, or the converse, too much fat? wrong proteins?
( incorrect) Temperature is known to cause birth defects in many animals, gender determining in others.
We know that year round conditions in the various Amazon tributaries are not as high as 85 or even 80 F.
Why euthanize?
because it takes resources from another potentially healthy ray ( Mike is not in this just for the fun, he needs to make $$'s and not have charity cases eating any profits, and rays ain;t cheap to raise) )
From a health point of view everything about batman rays is undesirable. Why attempt to breed something so terminally messed up? Everyone agrees it is a defect.
Why euthanize me?
can't think of a good reason not to frankly, but " up yours" anyway
