This has been bugging me for a while.
- Thread starter wild bill
- Start date
Hello; I posted some links from a search. I get that you do not appreciate the conntent, but the links are what they are. Because I can not personaly confirm the accuracy of the information I posted the links.
I was particuraly interested by a statement in one of the links. It had to do with a socialist government being better suited for them to accomplish their goals.
Hello; Allow me to state my take again in hope of a better understanding. I know that PETA had no direct impact on this particular fish shop. I included the links about PETA because of my astonishment at learning their kill rate of the "rescued " animals. These links showed up when I did a couple of searches for animal rights group goals.
I tried to include a sample of some of the links found. I did not post anywhere near all of them.
Again, my take is that the issue goes beyond this one particular fish shop. Some of the issue is who gets to decide the criteria. I question how the various animal rights groups come to have an influence on the laws made and how their influence affects how the goverment agencies involved operate.
I wish I had copied the mission statement of the Alberta SPCA when I read it years ago. Basically they understood that the livestock industry,hunting,rodeo and Ithik it was circuses were all excepted practices in Albetra. Then went on to say how hard they were working to change these things. Later when I went to copy it some how it was gone. To me it was proof they wanted no one knowing what their true goals are. As I pionted out earlier the HS in Calgary does have a very strong say in what is ok at the Calgary Stampede rodeo. They have no hidden agenda there except to shut it down. Why is ok to slam the history and heritage of one group but in turn stand for the heritage and rights of others.
I will definately end that comment at that. The sad and blatant truth of the matter is we are losing our freedoms and we don't even know it. When the ones it is happening to make a stand they are considered conspiacy theorists. What Jason mentioned about his family losing their land is happening in Alberta right now to our farmers. It is being done in the mask of a bill called bill 6. This bill will lead to more and more government agencies on their land every year telling them how to operate. Sadly alot of people think it is fine or about time but these are mostly city people. The new laws reagarding aquarium fish coming into play on Jan 1st no one knows what they will bring but I can safely bet we will lose more than our right to own snakeheads.
I will definately end that comment at that. The sad and blatant truth of the matter is we are losing our freedoms and we don't even know it. When the ones it is happening to make a stand they are considered conspiacy theorists. What Jason mentioned about his family losing their land is happening in Alberta right now to our farmers. It is being done in the mask of a bill called bill 6. This bill will lead to more and more government agencies on their land every year telling them how to operate. Sadly alot of people think it is fine or about time but these are mostly city people. The new laws reagarding aquarium fish coming into play on Jan 1st no one knows what they will bring but I can safely bet we will lose more than our right to own snakeheads.
I just had to read the link on Red Deer Reptiles and it was as I suspected a bunch of animal rightist making the comments. The one named insomniac attacked our zoo. She does not even live in Red Deer and would have to have got a ride from Edmonton to go see the place. She started a group called CCaawps whose entire goal was to harass my family. She is a real prize no spine to say anything to your face but just wait untill she gets on her computer. She is a perfct example of most animal rightist.
I do know alittle about this store a friend of our went there a few times. He was definately shady and crooked. Please don't put Wayne in that man's class of people. That could almost verge on slander.
I do know alittle about this store a friend of our went there a few times. He was definately shady and crooked. Please don't put Wayne in that man's class of people. That could almost verge on slander.
Bill, you missed the point. That thread was 75 pages long, and many of the people commenting were/are simple hobbyists. I know some of them, and they aren't animal rights activists. You can't dismiss ALL those comments, because of what a few activists post. I saw that store at its worst - the comments were valid. None of that had anything to do with Wayne, other than to demonstrate that these groups that are in place to protect the animals in this province, act on complaints. Complaints that often come from regular run of the mill people/ hobbyists - not just crazy people.
Skj ...... no need to explain further I got it the first time. All irrelevant to me, and the original comment by the OP which is all I was/am concerned with.
To answer your question regarding this partiular situation...
Here in Alberta there are two laws under which those who commit animal cruelty can be charged.
Provincially, the Animal Protection Act addresses animals in distress due to neglect or abuse by their owner. The solicitor general appoints peace officers from the Alberta SPCA, the Calgary Humane Society and the Edmonton Humane Society who can issue penalties such as fines of up to $20,000 and restrictions on owning animals.
Federally, the Criminal Code of Canada addresses willful acts of cruelty of neglect by either an animal's owner or by someone else. Police or RCMP investigate these cases and often work together with the local SPCA or humane society.
In 2011, there were 24 convictions under the Animal Protection Act — three involved the welfare of cattle, 15 involved horses, one involved sheep and five involved dogs. I don't have more recent stats, but I am sure they would be just as appalling. (insert rolling eyes)
A quick break down of the Animal Protection Act can be found in the following link.
http://www.albertaspca.org/neglect-abuse/legislation/apa.html
And the Calgary Humane Society, and what they are responsible for.
http://www.calgaryhumane.ca/what-we-do/cruelty-investigation-and-animal-protection/
And on that note I shall now go cry myself to sleep over all the freedom I am losing.
Peace out.
Skj ...... no need to explain further I got it the first time. All irrelevant to me, and the original comment by the OP which is all I was/am concerned with.
To answer your question regarding this partiular situation...
Here in Alberta there are two laws under which those who commit animal cruelty can be charged.
Provincially, the Animal Protection Act addresses animals in distress due to neglect or abuse by their owner. The solicitor general appoints peace officers from the Alberta SPCA, the Calgary Humane Society and the Edmonton Humane Society who can issue penalties such as fines of up to $20,000 and restrictions on owning animals.
Federally, the Criminal Code of Canada addresses willful acts of cruelty of neglect by either an animal's owner or by someone else. Police or RCMP investigate these cases and often work together with the local SPCA or humane society.
In 2011, there were 24 convictions under the Animal Protection Act — three involved the welfare of cattle, 15 involved horses, one involved sheep and five involved dogs. I don't have more recent stats, but I am sure they would be just as appalling. (insert rolling eyes)
A quick break down of the Animal Protection Act can be found in the following link.
http://www.albertaspca.org/neglect-abuse/legislation/apa.html
And the Calgary Humane Society, and what they are responsible for.
http://www.calgaryhumane.ca/what-we-do/cruelty-investigation-and-animal-protection/
And on that note I shall now go cry myself to sleep over all the freedom I am losing.
Peace out.
I will not argue that guy was out there and there were ligit post. His store from what I gathered from our friend was a front for something else and as he did to her probably took peoples money with no promised product.
I was in the store once and the owner certainly was not friendly just stared at you.
My problem is not with the animal protection act but the groups who are enforcing it. It really makes you look when you go to SPCA web site and they give you links to PETA and WSPA not sure if they still do but they have. If you are not affiliated with these groups why have links to them on your page.
I was in the store once and the owner certainly was not friendly just stared at you.
My problem is not with the animal protection act but the groups who are enforcing it. It really makes you look when you go to SPCA web site and they give you links to PETA and WSPA not sure if they still do but they have. If you are not affiliated with these groups why have links to them on your page.
Here is an interesting read for you. This statement is from the Calgary Humane Society web site.
http://www.calgaryhumane.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Animals-in-Entertainment-Oct-2014.pdf
Now this is from a group who is not animal rights. Yet they don't want animals brought into zoos from wild capture that is unacceptable. How are zoos to keep blood lines strong and I can only imagine this would go for wild caught hobby fish. But do we as hobbist any thing to fear yep it is only a matter of time.
http://www.calgaryhumane.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Animals-in-Entertainment-Oct-2014.pdf
Now this is from a group who is not animal rights. Yet they don't want animals brought into zoos from wild capture that is unacceptable. How are zoos to keep blood lines strong and I can only imagine this would go for wild caught hobby fish. But do we as hobbist any thing to fear yep it is only a matter of time.
Hello; I read the link. I get it.
Many years ago I stopped going to the circus because I did not like seeing the way the animals were used. Never been to a rodeo as there has not been one near me. I do not care to watch a rodeo on TV. If either needed my support they would already be out of business.
That said, I do not try to stop others from going to a circus or a rodeo. That they may like these things is their business, that I do not is my business.
I do not eat shark fin soup. I would not buy ivory even if it was legal. I will only use animal leather from food animals such as swine or cattle. I will not support trade in threatened species with my money. I use barbless hooks (or flatten the barbs of regular hooks) and realse most fish I catch with little harm. (Some few are harmed, but I continue to go fishing.) I conserve water. The list goes on.
I keep freshwater tropicals in glass boxes. I understand much of what is involved in the capture, transport and commerce of the fish. In the past 50 + years most all of the fish I have kept are dead. Some died because of my lack of knowledge, but that I have been working at and have made considerable progress. I did go to trying to keep only tank raised species some decades ago, but understand that wild stock had to be captured at some past time.
If I walk into a sorry fish shop, and I have been in many, I simply leave without making a purchase. The large majority of sorry fish shops I have known went out of business pretty soon. I have never known a sorry shop that lasted very long. I shop at the good shops.
Some times I see dead fish at a good shop. I find dead fish in my own tanks from time to time. Sometimes the fish are dead for a few days. Even at the best I can do, some one else could find fault with my setups in their own eyes. My water change schedule may not suit. I do not feed enough or I feed too much. My stocking density does not suit. I some times wind up with singletons of a species because they happen to outlive the others i bought with them. I use old school things like UGF's.
I do not like some of the setups I read about on this forum. Do I get to be the judge?
Yeah Wild Bill, I get it.
You keep stating that keeping animals as Pets an such is a 'Freedom'. This is part of the problem. It is not a 'Freedom' in the same way that you are insinuating. Comparing having to treat other living creatures to a certain standard, and having land taken away for no apparent reason are 2 completely different issues, they're not even closely related and it does nothing but diminish what you are trying to argue for. Keeping Pets/Using them for Entertainment and to make money shouldn't be classed as a freedom, it should be classed as a luxury that is earned.
To keep an animal as a pet, or to make money from, such as Zoo's, Rodeo's, Pet Trade etc. then of course there should be standards that have to be kept. Don't forget a choice has been made by people to try an make a living from selling these animals, or watching them for entertainment. So they should not then complain when the majority of people think that they should have to keep these animals in humane conditions, and not just be left to trade as they please.
One quote from your original post really stands out for me, an it may seem like nothing to some, but for me it points out the mentality being dealt with. You say that silly things like a Goat not being kept next door to a Lion because it knows it is going to be eaten. If you did own a Zoo and you think that an animal living in constant fear of being eaten is not an issue then I guess you had the wrong mindset all along.
To keep an animal as a pet, or to make money from, such as Zoo's, Rodeo's, Pet Trade etc. then of course there should be standards that have to be kept. Don't forget a choice has been made by people to try an make a living from selling these animals, or watching them for entertainment. So they should not then complain when the majority of people think that they should have to keep these animals in humane conditions, and not just be left to trade as they please.
One quote from your original post really stands out for me, an it may seem like nothing to some, but for me it points out the mentality being dealt with. You say that silly things like a Goat not being kept next door to a Lion because it knows it is going to be eaten. If you did own a Zoo and you think that an animal living in constant fear of being eaten is not an issue then I guess you had the wrong mindset all along.
Hello; You make an assumption that may not be warranted. I recall recently seeing a news report where a goat was placed into a large cats enclosure ( maybe a tiger) to be lunch. For some reason they became friends. I am not suggesting that all big cats will befriend a goat. It does, however, seem likely that a goat separated from and next door to a predator will not be in constant fear stress.
http://www.boredpanda.com/unusual-animal-friendships/
http://search.aol.com/aol/image?q=unusual+animal+friends
http://search.aol.com/aol/image?q=predator+and+prey+friendships
In addition, it is my understanding that many members of this forum provide live food to their fish. I have done so. You may have one standard while I have another. Can I be the judge of your setups?
Have a nice day.
