This has been bugging me for a while.
- Thread starter wild bill
- Start date
Ok I started this thread because of a LFS and his battle with the HS. Well I finally went and looked on the HS web site and they do not even try to hide their animals rights agenda. Here is the link to their position on various animal related isues.
http://www.calgaryhumane.ca/wp-cont...al-Welfare-Position-Statements-June-20151.pdf
If read read the part about exotic anumals as pets you can cleary see why they may target this store. As he might have the most lizards and retiles of any store.
Then if you read when this new revised position came into being it explains why they have really ramped up their assult. Most laws and bylaws are given time for us to get used to then we learn the full power of said bills,laws what have you.
As for why I consider having pets being able to own a zoo a freedom because they are. Do you really think a government is now a days just going take all of your rights away at once no. They would have such an uprising on their hands and the leaders likely would not live untill their next breakfast. So they chip aaway a little at a time things we think aren't important. Laws that will appease the mass majority and only bother some. On and on it goes chip chip chip then one day you realise hey I have no say or ownership of my house. The best part I guess if you can look at it that way is these animal rights groups think they are winning when in fact some day they will wake up in prison for protesting. Suddenly and maybe then they will realise hey our freedoms are gone and scream to us for help.
http://www.calgaryhumane.ca/wp-cont...al-Welfare-Position-Statements-June-20151.pdf
If read read the part about exotic anumals as pets you can cleary see why they may target this store. As he might have the most lizards and retiles of any store.
Then if you read when this new revised position came into being it explains why they have really ramped up their assult. Most laws and bylaws are given time for us to get used to then we learn the full power of said bills,laws what have you.
As for why I consider having pets being able to own a zoo a freedom because they are. Do you really think a government is now a days just going take all of your rights away at once no. They would have such an uprising on their hands and the leaders likely would not live untill their next breakfast. So they chip aaway a little at a time things we think aren't important. Laws that will appease the mass majority and only bother some. On and on it goes chip chip chip then one day you realise hey I have no say or ownership of my house. The best part I guess if you can look at it that way is these animal rights groups think they are winning when in fact some day they will wake up in prison for protesting. Suddenly and maybe then they will realise hey our freedoms are gone and scream to us for help.
I tried to argue this in the last thread but I'll say it.
Until you're in the shoes of the people who see abused and neglected animals of all kinds on a daily basis you won't be able to understand were they're coming from.
But you only see things from your perspective. Anyone with a differing opinion towards animals is just a nut job to you.
You still say the store was "targeted" but someone with actual experience with that store has already said the store took poor care of their animals and yet you just over look everything he said.
And you really think the sale rep is going to be honest with you? That's the same sales rep that will likely vouch for blueberry and strawberry oscars. *rolls eyes*
Until you're in the shoes of the people who see abused and neglected animals of all kinds on a daily basis you won't be able to understand were they're coming from.
But you only see things from your perspective. Anyone with a differing opinion towards animals is just a nut job to you.
You still say the store was "targeted" but someone with actual experience with that store has already said the store took poor care of their animals and yet you just over look everything he said.
And you really think the sale rep is going to be honest with you? That's the same sales rep that will likely vouch for blueberry and strawberry oscars. *rolls eyes*
I forgot on the goat and lion issue I really don't think a goat from Alberta knows what a lion is or has a fear of it. In fact I witnessed one day some roosters we had running free range well 1 wandered out by our cougar enclosure. This silly bird was pecking and scratching right beside the cougar's fence. The cougars were up on theur ledge starring at this rooster. Finally 1 of the cougars lept from the ledge landed right beside the rooster and swatted thre fence. That stupid rooster never even looked up just kept about his business. Now if animals that are domesticated or even wild have never encountered a danger I don't think they will know it is. So a goat beside a lion would have no fear at all. Kind of like a pup and a lion cub growing uo together the dog has no idea it should fear that lion. like wise the lion doesn't realise it need not take crap from the dog. But what happens is the pup is the boss.
I have a little break at work, so here goes nothing, because most likely once again this will fall on deaf ears.
This store was not targeted. The HS acts on complaints, myself and other long time hobbyists, some that have spent more on a single fish, than what I make in a months work - all saw conditions that were unsuitable by any normal sane persons standards. The key words being normal, and sane. I have absolutely no doubt that the general public, as in people who actually keep reptiles etc, complained to both the city and HS. No doubt at all.
Let me break this down in simple terms - if someone treated one my dogs in this manner, I would kick their teeth in, and be quite happy to pay whatever time/fine the courts deemed fit. Clear enough? I am not a tree hugger, nor an animal rights activist, far from it, but if/when someone crosses the line, a line set by society, they need to be taken to task. When a gentle nudge/warning doesn't work, then in some cases something more serious is required. Obviously the city mentioned took this as a very serious situation, apparently seriously enough to pull their business license, something that is not done on a whim in this jurisdiction, and rarely (if ever?) done over an investigation by this cities HS. My guess is there is a LOT more information regarding this case than ANYONE knows outside of the store owner, the city, and the investigators involved.
And Bill, it's obvious this topic is a sore spot for you due to what has happened to you & your family. Certainly you were indeed targeted, and not knowing all of the information from both sides I'm not going to comment on any of that. I have no issue with you starting threads such as this, I just didn't agree in the manner that you described this situation, with this store. No real hard facts were presented, more along the lines of someone told you something that may have implied something. Think about it. I am not stating that this store is guilty, nor am I stating they are innocent. What I am stating is that from what I have seen over the years there is more to this story than what some sales rep is telling you. There were bad conditions when I was there, more than once, and it sounds like there have been warnings about some of these conditions - how many warnings/fines in the past I do not know, but neither do you, or anyone else here. Personally I'm quite comfortable allowing the court in Calgary to settle this matter.
This store was not targeted. The HS acts on complaints, myself and other long time hobbyists, some that have spent more on a single fish, than what I make in a months work - all saw conditions that were unsuitable by any normal sane persons standards. The key words being normal, and sane. I have absolutely no doubt that the general public, as in people who actually keep reptiles etc, complained to both the city and HS. No doubt at all.
Let me break this down in simple terms - if someone treated one my dogs in this manner, I would kick their teeth in, and be quite happy to pay whatever time/fine the courts deemed fit. Clear enough? I am not a tree hugger, nor an animal rights activist, far from it, but if/when someone crosses the line, a line set by society, they need to be taken to task. When a gentle nudge/warning doesn't work, then in some cases something more serious is required. Obviously the city mentioned took this as a very serious situation, apparently seriously enough to pull their business license, something that is not done on a whim in this jurisdiction, and rarely (if ever?) done over an investigation by this cities HS. My guess is there is a LOT more information regarding this case than ANYONE knows outside of the store owner, the city, and the investigators involved.
And Bill, it's obvious this topic is a sore spot for you due to what has happened to you & your family. Certainly you were indeed targeted, and not knowing all of the information from both sides I'm not going to comment on any of that. I have no issue with you starting threads such as this, I just didn't agree in the manner that you described this situation, with this store. No real hard facts were presented, more along the lines of someone told you something that may have implied something. Think about it. I am not stating that this store is guilty, nor am I stating they are innocent. What I am stating is that from what I have seen over the years there is more to this story than what some sales rep is telling you. There were bad conditions when I was there, more than once, and it sounds like there have been warnings about some of these conditions - how many warnings/fines in the past I do not know, but neither do you, or anyone else here. Personally I'm quite comfortable allowing the court in Calgary to settle this matter.
Thank you RD and I agree the courts will have to settle the matter. The sales rep I refer to is a hobbyist too and a very finicky guy.
I don't know if you would have ever met him in your travels. If you ever do get a chance to meet him I think you will see why I believe what he is saying.
I definately should have used a different title for this thread to get across what I want to say. How ever it does not look good when the HS states in their own position statement they are against breeding and having exotic animals for pets. Now they are supposed to follow the guide lines of the animal protection act but they made it very clear what kind of people they want to hire. Maybe in this case both parties could use a make over. The city should really read the position statement of the HS if they intend to continue use them for animal protection act. From what I read in their mission statement they are very pro animal rights. They work for the city yet are getting their nose into farm animals too. To the best of my knowledge there are no ranches or dairies or other animal farms in that city. They even are opposed to the zoo bringing in a wild caught animal for breeding or display purposes. It is these kinds of issues that leave a person to wonder if their investigation of this LFS can be unbiased.
I don't know if you would have ever met him in your travels. If you ever do get a chance to meet him I think you will see why I believe what he is saying.
I definately should have used a different title for this thread to get across what I want to say. How ever it does not look good when the HS states in their own position statement they are against breeding and having exotic animals for pets. Now they are supposed to follow the guide lines of the animal protection act but they made it very clear what kind of people they want to hire. Maybe in this case both parties could use a make over. The city should really read the position statement of the HS if they intend to continue use them for animal protection act. From what I read in their mission statement they are very pro animal rights. They work for the city yet are getting their nose into farm animals too. To the best of my knowledge there are no ranches or dairies or other animal farms in that city. They even are opposed to the zoo bringing in a wild caught animal for breeding or display purposes. It is these kinds of issues that leave a person to wonder if their investigation of this LFS can be unbiased.
Eh when will you see that what a group like this HS calls abuse and what is abuse might be 2 totally different things.
I am now going to assume you read their postion statement and you ther fore are agreeing with their views. This would confirm that you are leaning to the AR way of life. Some of what this group is following is in the animal protection act but they have then decided to take it a little farther and that is where I have an issue. They could actually write you up for catching you gold fish in a net. Why because that gold fish was in fear and that is wrong in their eyes.
Beating your pet is abuse so is starving it. But they are telling people how long their dog can be outside and the dog should even have a coat on, on cold days. Now to me putting clothes on an animal is abuse. These HS's go looking for people who have drank the AR kool aid and are ready to call owning animals abuse.
As for the sales rep I do believe him in fact at one time I questioned whether he was animal rights or not. But he is honest and like RD Ithink if he saw neglect or abuse there he would have said so.
I am now going to assume you read their postion statement and you ther fore are agreeing with their views. This would confirm that you are leaning to the AR way of life. Some of what this group is following is in the animal protection act but they have then decided to take it a little farther and that is where I have an issue. They could actually write you up for catching you gold fish in a net. Why because that gold fish was in fear and that is wrong in their eyes.
Beating your pet is abuse so is starving it. But they are telling people how long their dog can be outside and the dog should even have a coat on, on cold days. Now to me putting clothes on an animal is abuse. These HS's go looking for people who have drank the AR kool aid and are ready to call owning animals abuse.
As for the sales rep I do believe him in fact at one time I questioned whether he was animal rights or not. But he is honest and like RD Ithink if he saw neglect or abuse there he would have said so.
I am serious it takes alot to get any animal to let you dress it without a fight. Would that not in this day and age be considered abuse.
I see both sides in this argument but imo it would be nice to see abused children cared for the same way a mistreated gold fish is.....smh
I have a legit question was the store owner ever given warnings and time to remidy the sistuation ? If so then what wrong was done to him ? Im not one for govt control either though. It is a fine line
I have a legit question was the store owner ever given warnings and time to remidy the sistuation ? If so then what wrong was done to him ? Im not one for govt control either though. It is a fine line
