This is about Martinboys Piebald Zonatus

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Exactly - I'm suspicious of both the volume of "wild" fish...and that they're being collected from so many far flung locations. Oh, and there aren't (well since Don's book in the '90s) pictures / accounts of these far flung collecting trips...not only to Mexico, but to Belize, Guatemala, etc... documented in aquarium literature or websites.
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Matt, in all fairness if Don is simply importing the fish from an exporting company, there wouldn't be any photos of any collecting trips, or anything else. I don't need to travel to Peru in person, in order to get wild fish from Peru. (or anywhere else in the world)
 
Hi DQ,

Unfortunately, Don didn't entertain questions when he presented to us... A couple of folks were able to grab him outside to discuss selling hybrids and unusual dovii breeding strategies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82GxIM7xw5U)

For me, at least, his presentation - which was really, really similar to the one he presented at the ACA in like 2004 (with the same claims of books, vids, new strains, etc. being released "later this year") - led me to have more and not fewer questions...

After his presentation, I actually followed up with multiple emails to Don regarding, among other topics, more information about the not-for-profit (on which he says he's on the board). Couldn't find any info on it on the internet. And no responses.

The bottom line is that without evidence to the contrary, I just don't trust that the stock that he says is "wild" and from an actual collection point...is actually wild and from that collection point.

Other folks can believe...and pay the premium.

Matt

DISCIPLE said:
Feedback Score 3 (100%) No personal agenda again Conkel on my part - I've just been around long enough to know that a lot of what he says doesn't check out under scrutiny....that there have been unintentional hybridization issues at his farm in the past (especially among Vieja and Paratheraps)...and that (because of this) I try my best to steer clear of his stock. He spoke at my local club meeting last year and my perspective has not changed...

The best way to clear this up is transparency around where and how Conkel / Gage source their "wild" stock.

- Who is (or are) their sources of wild (not "wild") fish from Mexico? Do they also import pond-raised fish (from Central America)?

- Are there any RECENT pictures of people collecting from the wild (not recycled '90s-era photos or the same photos that are on his website)?

- Can they produce any import statements, permits or other documentation of wild import from Mexico?

- Have their suppliers ever seen piebald or other unusually-colored zonatum in the wild? It would seem that with regular collecting activity going on that Conkel and his suppliers would have a better idea than just about anyone of the natural variability of this species...

- Macracanthus and Trimacs are also found in the Rio Tehuantepec (Mexico). Given that zonatum is (allegedly) being collected from the wild, are the suppliers also collecting these species at the same time? Relative abundance of each? Conditions in the river? What the habitat looks like? Other fish found with the cichlids?

I could go on....and I'll probably hear the same stories of secret collection locations (so that "the others" won't travel to Mexico and take all of the "special" zonatum)...

In closing, I'd be a lot less skeptical of Conkel-sourced stock in general...and this guy's fish in particular...if all of what I've described above wasn't so shrouded in mystery (or coated in BS).

Providing this kind of information could both go a long way in demonstrating the authenticity of the stock they're selling but also provide valuable information and insight for hobbyists and scientists...

Matt

WHY DIDNT YOU ASK HIM WHEN HE WAS HERE FOR THE CCA MEETING? IT WOULD HAVE BEEN INTERESTING TO GET THOSE QUESTIONS YOU AND OTHERS HAVE ADDRESSED DIRECTLY FROM THE SOURCE. CURIOSITY AND QUESTIONS ANSWERED.
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Agreed, especially for Peru, where there's large scale collecting / exporting going on (regular lists, etc.). But for way out of the way places in Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras...that's a whole different story...

Some transparency in how things actually work might explain a few things.

Matt

RD. said:
Matt, in all fairness if Don is simply importing the fish from an exporting company, there wouldn't be any photos of any collecting trips, or anything else. I don't need to travel to Peru in person, in order to get wild fish from Peru. (or anywhere else in the world)
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dogofwar said:
Hi DQ,

Unfortunately, Don didn't entertain questions when he presented to us... A couple of folks were able to grab him outside to discuss selling hybrids and unusual dovii breeding strategies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82GxIM7xw5U)

For me, at least, his presentation - which was really, really similar to the one he presented at the ACA in like 2004 (with the same claims of books, vids, new strains, etc. being released "later this year") - led me to have more and not fewer questions...

After his presentation, I actually followed up with multiple emails to Don regarding, among other topics, more information about the not-for-profit (on which he says he's on the board). Couldn't find any info on it on the internet. And no responses.

The bottom line is that without evidence to the contrary, I just don't trust that the stock that he says is "wild" and from an actual collection point...is actually wild and from that collection point.

Other folks can believe...and pay the premium.

Matt
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GOTCHA
 
RD. said:
Right, but in this case it's on a larger commercial scale, which from my understanding permit wise is apparently a different situation than a hobbyist collecting a few fish.
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six or seven guys each carrying a couple hundred fish. I don't know what would be considered "commercial".
 
I didn't mean for that to come across as though you only had 2 or 3 fish in hand. :)
 
HERE ARE SOME UPDATED PICTURES OF THE MYSTERY FISH. I JUST TOOK HIM OUT OF HOSPITAL TANK TODAY AND HE LOOKS TO ABOUT 90% HEALED!

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