This is very interesting
- Thread starter Joshuakahan
- Start date
I may have a compromised ability to articulate the mechanics but even if misnamed I still don't think of it as a flawed process. This old boy may be a tad more pedantic than the topic merits. Toss in the bio starter of your choice and a handful of food for it to consume and that sparkly fresh tank will be "cycled" soon enough without having introduced any sort of nonsense from your local creek.
Maybe you youngsters can spare 15 of your remaining minutes to listen to that whole spiel; I have to be more selective with my precious remaining time and quickly decided there were better ways to utilize it. 
Of course it's just semantics; I agree that calling it "cycling" is imprecise and perhaps confusing to beginners. I prefer to think of a tank...or, even more precisely, a filter...as "mature"...but obviously it means the same thing. Why argue about such trivia?
I worked much of my life as an electrician. All the work we did, including the construction of gigantic hydroelectric dams converting vast amounts of the potential energy of water into electrical energy to power your HOB filters...was based on electrical theory. The mysterious workings of electricity have never been and likely never will be proven, so it remains theory. But the theory has been tested for so long that it is a pretty safe bet that we can tell what's gonna happen next.
It's the same thing here; we as aquarists can't prove any of the things that scientists tell us are happening in our tanks. We can only take what has been observed under controlled conditions and apply it to our own modest little experiments, remaining comfortably certain that the theory adequately explains what is going on. Once you get to the point where you can sorta kinda foresee what result a particular action will produce...it all falls into place.
Hey, Fish Father: as one white-bearded codger to another...show us something we don't know, not the same old same old with new terminology. Don't try to reinvent the wheel. We all know what a wheel is, how it looks and what it does. Saying that it's not really a wheel but actually a hammer isn't impressing anybody.
And for crying out loud...let's speed up the delivery a bit, huh?
Of course it's just semantics; I agree that calling it "cycling" is imprecise and perhaps confusing to beginners. I prefer to think of a tank...or, even more precisely, a filter...as "mature"...but obviously it means the same thing. Why argue about such trivia?
I worked much of my life as an electrician. All the work we did, including the construction of gigantic hydroelectric dams converting vast amounts of the potential energy of water into electrical energy to power your HOB filters...was based on electrical theory. The mysterious workings of electricity have never been and likely never will be proven, so it remains theory. But the theory has been tested for so long that it is a pretty safe bet that we can tell what's gonna happen next.
It's the same thing here; we as aquarists can't prove any of the things that scientists tell us are happening in our tanks. We can only take what has been observed under controlled conditions and apply it to our own modest little experiments, remaining comfortably certain that the theory adequately explains what is going on. Once you get to the point where you can sorta kinda foresee what result a particular action will produce...it all falls into place.
Hey, Fish Father: as one white-bearded codger to another...show us something we don't know, not the same old same old with new terminology. Don't try to reinvent the wheel. We all know what a wheel is, how it looks and what it does. Saying that it's not really a wheel but actually a hammer isn't impressing anybody.
And for crying out loud...let's speed up the delivery a bit, huh?
I watched on high speed and it sounded perfect lolMaybe you youngsters can spare 15 of your remaining minutes to listen to that whole spiel; I have to be more selective with my precious remaining time and quickly decided there were better ways to utilize it.
Of course it's just semantics; I agree that calling it "cycling" is imprecise and perhaps confusing to beginners. I prefer to think of a tank...or, even more precisely, a filter...as "mature"...but obviously it means the same thing. Why argue about such trivia?
I worked much of my life as an electrician. All the work we did, including the construction of gigantic hydroelectric dams converting vast amounts of the potential energy of water into electrical energy to power your HOB filters...was based on electrical theory. The mysterious workings of electricity have never been and likely never will be proven, so it remains theory. But the theory has been tested for so long that it is a pretty safe bet that we can tell what's gonna happen next.
It's the same thing here; we as aquarists can't prove any of the things that scientists tell us are happening in our tanks. We can only take what has been observed under controlled conditions and apply it to our own modest little experiments, remaining comfortably certain that the theory adequately explains what is going on. Once you get to the point where you can sorta kinda foresee what result a particular action will produce...it all falls into place.
Hey, Fish Father: as one white-bearded codger to another...show us something we don't know, not the same old same old with new terminology. Don't try to reinvent the wheel. We all know what a wheel is, how it looks and what it does. Saying that it's not really a wheel but actually a hammer isn't impressing anybody.
And for crying out loud...let's speed up the delivery a bit, huh?
Father Fish hails from my neck of the woods (SW FL). His gig is dirted tanks. Guy used to own a fish store in Venice FL. These days he makes his $$ from YouTube Video clicks. Also has a chat room and live talk show on another platform. The guy has a big following. Why? I have no idea. He is boring and talks a lot of nonsense.
Tell me about it. Hell, I'm more entertained by this last post of yours than father fish's video.
You mean to tell me that aussieman is not actually an aussie but rather a Floridian that likes sheepdogs?! What a twist!
My initial agreement with him was regarding the term "cycling". I just believe "cycling" isn't a good term to describe setting up an aquarium.
Then I viewed his video in full, and was dumbstruck!
If a total newbie was setting up a tank and looking for advice, and stumbled upon his video, it could potentially turn into a disaster for them. His advice regarding starting a tank is plain wrong imo.
He states you need "material" for your new tank that already has a mature bio film on it, and then encourages the viewer to go down to their local waterway and get a load of rocks and twigs, or whatever's on hand, and stick them in your new tank.
Then he says it's fine to add fish at this point, and that you're done and everything will be great.
He fails to mention anything about the possibility, indeed probability, of introducing nasty pathogens to your tank by adding materials from an outside source. No mention of quarantining whatsoever.
The fact he then encourages the viewer to add fish at this point, and possibly infect them with said pathogens is another shocker.
This guy has no credibility in my eye. I just hope potential newbies dig a little deeper in regards to their research before starting their new tank.
Then I viewed his video in full, and was dumbstruck!
If a total newbie was setting up a tank and looking for advice, and stumbled upon his video, it could potentially turn into a disaster for them. His advice regarding starting a tank is plain wrong imo.
He states you need "material" for your new tank that already has a mature bio film on it, and then encourages the viewer to go down to their local waterway and get a load of rocks and twigs, or whatever's on hand, and stick them in your new tank.
Then he says it's fine to add fish at this point, and that you're done and everything will be great.
He fails to mention anything about the possibility, indeed probability, of introducing nasty pathogens to your tank by adding materials from an outside source. No mention of quarantining whatsoever.
The fact he then encourages the viewer to add fish at this point, and possibly infect them with said pathogens is another shocker.
This guy has no credibility in my eye. I just hope potential newbies dig a little deeper in regards to their research before starting their new tank.
Honestly, I wouldn't go so far as to say that he has no credibility; I can't really point at any one thing he has said and declare in good conscience "That's hogwash! Totally untrue!" I'd say most of his drivel, at least what I have heard and what I have seen discussed here, is essentially true...but, hey, the guy needs views; he can't just say the same thing that everyone else says and expect to garner a following. So he re-words and re-brands and re-labels old ideas and tries to present them as his own original work.
We talk about seeding our aquaria with biofilter material from established tanks all the time; it works, plain and simple. We are also aware that the bacteria...or Archaea, or organic nanobots, or whatever they are...are situated on all surfaces in the aquarium. It therefore follows that simply bringing in stuff from nature that is already seeded with these little miracle workers will kick-start a new tank just as surely as a skanky old spongefilter from an established tank.
Sure, it's a lot messier and more labour-intensive to drag in a bucket of stinky crap from the bottom of a pond, but it probably has a certain quasi-holistic appeal to the Earth-mothers and hippies who feel that Gaea is now bathing in their tanks. Or, if you have no established tank, it may be the easiest route to follow.
And I'll be honest here; back when I was a kid and had just started to read about the mysterious organic goings-on that my shiny new undergravel filter was setting up in my latest 5-gallon tank...I did this same thing many times. Several sources suggested or encouraged this idea...it wasn't even original back in the 60's and 70's! They even went so far as to suggest sourcing your bucket of organic crap from a woodland pond or other body of water that did not contain fish, claiming that this simple caution would be instrumental in avoiding the introduction of many or most fish pathogens; very logical...but now new.
One thing is certain: the only dirty used sponge filter that I am dropping into a clean new tank is coming from one of my own aquariums. I don't want someone else's filter, stuffed chockful of someone else's problems, squeezing out its mysterious juices in my new tank. I think a handful of leaves from a woodland pond is far preferable; I just don't think that this idea is new or in any way earth-shaking, and I am not trying to make money on the internet by presenting it as such.
I have also used this type of material many times over the years as a first-food source for freshly-hatched fry. Commercial fry foods were not easily available, at least not in my area, for much of my aquariological career. If you had small species of fry, like gouramis and many others, you needed to culture infusoria and/or green water for the first week or so if you wanted them to eat. I was no dummy; I knew the difficulties associated with explaining to my parents why I had multiple jars of "filth" percolating on a windowledge...and I knew that there was a giant infusoria culture ready and waiting for me in the nearby woods. That was an easy choice to make.
Finally...look at his tank, the one behind him in his video. That is the sort of tank that works and results from his approach. Large, heavily planted...and very few fish. Not many aquarists today will be satisfied with that; most people buy their fish by the bucket and add them to their tanks the way a fishermen stocks the live-bait-well in his boat; i.e. pour in a few dozen fish and hope some of them survive long enough to do their job.
So, Fishy Father has, IMHO, literally nothing new to contribute. In fact, I think that, if anything, he is muddying the waters for new aquarists; he tells them that a lot of what they may have read is wrong (even when it isn't) and then presents all this re-worked terminology as though it represents new ideas (when it doesn't) and makes it sound as though his own sheer intellectual horsepower allowed him to be the first to perceive this truth (which it didn't). I am forced to award him a place of honour in my Aquariological Scam Artists Hall of Fame. I'm putting him in right next to the Father of Biocenosis Clarification Baskets; I'm not going to name that guy until after I buy some more stock in kitty-litter companies...
We talk about seeding our aquaria with biofilter material from established tanks all the time; it works, plain and simple. We are also aware that the bacteria...or Archaea, or organic nanobots, or whatever they are...are situated on all surfaces in the aquarium. It therefore follows that simply bringing in stuff from nature that is already seeded with these little miracle workers will kick-start a new tank just as surely as a skanky old spongefilter from an established tank.
Sure, it's a lot messier and more labour-intensive to drag in a bucket of stinky crap from the bottom of a pond, but it probably has a certain quasi-holistic appeal to the Earth-mothers and hippies who feel that Gaea is now bathing in their tanks.
Or, if you have no established tank, it may be the easiest route to follow.And I'll be honest here; back when I was a kid and had just started to read about the mysterious organic goings-on that my shiny new undergravel filter was setting up in my latest 5-gallon tank...I did this same thing many times. Several sources suggested or encouraged this idea...it wasn't even original back in the 60's and 70's! They even went so far as to suggest sourcing your bucket of organic crap from a woodland pond or other body of water that did not contain fish, claiming that this simple caution would be instrumental in avoiding the introduction of many or most fish pathogens; very logical...but now new.
One thing is certain: the only dirty used sponge filter that I am dropping into a clean new tank is coming from one of my own aquariums. I don't want someone else's filter, stuffed chockful of someone else's problems, squeezing out its mysterious juices in my new tank. I think a handful of leaves from a woodland pond is far preferable; I just don't think that this idea is new or in any way earth-shaking, and I am not trying to make money on the internet by presenting it as such.
I have also used this type of material many times over the years as a first-food source for freshly-hatched fry. Commercial fry foods were not easily available, at least not in my area, for much of my aquariological career. If you had small species of fry, like gouramis and many others, you needed to culture infusoria and/or green water for the first week or so if you wanted them to eat. I was no dummy; I knew the difficulties associated with explaining to my parents why I had multiple jars of "filth" percolating on a windowledge...and I knew that there was a giant infusoria culture ready and waiting for me in the nearby woods. That was an easy choice to make.
Finally...look at his tank, the one behind him in his video. That is the sort of tank that works and results from his approach. Large, heavily planted...and very few fish. Not many aquarists today will be satisfied with that; most people buy their fish by the bucket and add them to their tanks the way a fishermen stocks the live-bait-well in his boat; i.e. pour in a few dozen fish and hope some of them survive long enough to do their job.
So, Fishy Father has, IMHO, literally nothing new to contribute. In fact, I think that, if anything, he is muddying the waters for new aquarists; he tells them that a lot of what they may have read is wrong (even when it isn't) and then presents all this re-worked terminology as though it represents new ideas (when it doesn't) and makes it sound as though his own sheer intellectual horsepower allowed him to be the first to perceive this truth (which it didn't). I am forced to award him a place of honour in my Aquariological Scam Artists Hall of Fame. I'm putting him in right next to the Father of Biocenosis Clarification Baskets; I'm not going to name that guy until after I buy some more stock in kitty-litter companies...
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I read through the comments and everyone is pushing his deep bed of dirt with sand on top and plants. I’ve asked a few how that along with plants would work with a rift tank or any type of large messy fish or fish that like to dig…so far crickets are the only ones answering meHonestly, I wouldn't go so far as to say that he has no credibility; I can't really point at any one thing he has said and declare in good conscience "That's hogwash! Totally untrue!" I'd say most of his drivel, at least what I have heard and what I have seen discussed here, is essentially true...but, hey, the guy needs views; he can't just say the same thing that everyone else says and expect to garner a following. So he re-words and re-brands and re-labels old ideas and tries to present them as his own original work.
We talk about seeding our aquaria with biofilter material from established tanks all the time; it works, plain and simple. We are also aware that the bacteria...or Archaea, or organic nanobots, or whatever they are...are situated on all surfaces in the aquarium. It therefore follows that simply bringing in stuff from nature that is already seeded with these little miracle workers will kick-start a new tank just as surely as a skanky old spongefilter from an established tank.
Sure, it's a lot messier and more labour-intensive to drag in a bucket of stinky crap from the bottom of a pond, but it probably has a certain quasi-holistic appeal to the Earth-mothers and hippies who feel that Gaea is now bathing in their tanks.
And I'll be honest here; back when I was a kid and had just started to read about the mysterious organic goings-on that my shiny new undergravel filter was setting up in my latest 5-gallon tank...I did this same thing many times. Several sources suggested or encouraged this idea...it wasn't even original back in the 60's and 70's! They even went so far as to suggest sourcing your bucket of organic crap from a woodland pond or other body of water that did not contain fish, claiming that this simple caution would be instrumental in avoiding the introduction of many or most fish pathogens; very logical...but now new.
One thing is certain: the only dirty used sponge filter that I am dropping into a clean new tank is coming from one of my own aquariums. I don't want someone else's filter, stuffed chockful of someone else's problems, squeezing out its mysterious juices in my new tank. I think a handful of leaves from a woodland pond is far preferable; I just don't think that this idea is new or in any way earth-shaking, and I am not trying to make money on the internet by presenting it as such.
I have also used this type of material many times over the years as a first-food source for freshly-hatched fry. Commercial fry foods were not easily available, at least not in my area, for much of my aquariological career. If you had small species of fry, like gouramis and many others, you needed to culture infusoria and/or green water for the first week or so if you wanted them to eat. I was no dummy; I knew the difficulties associated with explaining to my parents why I had multiple jars of "filth" percolating on a windowledge...and I knew that there was a giant infusoria culture ready and waiting for me in the nearby woods. That was an easy choice to make.
Finally...look at his tank, the one behind him in his video. That is the sort of tank that works and results from his approach. Large, heavily planted...and very few fish. Not many aquarists today will be satisfied with that; most people buy their fish by the bucket and add them to their tanks the way a fishermen stocks the live-bait-well in his boat; i.e. pour in a few dozen fish and hope some of them survive long enough to do their job.
So, Fishy Father has, IMHO, literally nothing new to contribute. In fact, I think that, if anything, he is muddying the waters for new aquarists; he tells them that a lot of what they may have read is wrong (even when it isn't) and then presents all this re-worked terminology as though it represents new ideas (when it doesn't) and makes it sound as though his own sheer intellectual horsepower allowed him to be the first to perceive this truth (which it didn't). I am forced to award him a place of honour in my Aquariological Scam Artists Hall of Fame. I'm putting him in right next to Father of Biocenosis Clarification Baskets; I'm not going to name that guy until after I buy some more stock in kitty-litter companies...
That's because you already know the answer...and they know you know...
Watch out for black helicopters.
