Thoughts on Ohio Fish Rescue and Big Rich
- Thread starter philipraposo1982
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And what do you wanna say with this video? 98% of the people here has or have had an overstocked tank. You can get around that by changing heaps of water on weekly basis?
So my next question to you. Why are you after rich? Has he denied you of adopting a fish from his tanks? Or you are just jelous of his fishhouse where he happens to live with his family? Or are you one of the guys adoring people like paul cuffaro, rawwfishing, blake, joey slay em or zack catch em? If so put on your big boy pants and do it better yourself than rich.
If you feel offended by all the answers in this thread then maybe you shouldnt have made this thread. Over and out
In a way I have to give you kudos for having the cojones to come back and face your detractors, and to do so rather calmly. I'll also say that you raise one or two possibly valid, if arguable points -- e.g. nobody here is saying hot dogs are great for fish (I personally would never feed them to my fish unless I really had no other better choice). But in the reality of the particular situation where Rich uses them, not many are going to begrudge or criticize when looking at the bigger picture of what he's doing -- which is far more than 'regular' fish keepers like you, I and most others here are doing, so to compare his situation with that of peeps getting jumped on about Oscars in small tanks, really isn't fair at all.
Basically I just don't think you're going to convince anyone here that Rich is anything but a pretty cool dude doing his best to deal with a challenging situation and provide the fish in his keeping with a better life.
Of course everyone has a right to express their opinions, so have at it as you please. But as a final word of advice: you really shot yourself in the foot from the start by also criticizing the man's appearance/condition in your OP -- as a skinny, fit and shaved head dude I can tell you it has absolutely no bearing on my fish keeping abilities lol -- so personally I'd at least man-up and try to make amends for that gaff, but just my 2 Thai Baht.
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In all fairness to Rich, they were turkey hot dogs. Lower protein, and lower fat.
AND, back to the simple fact of these fish are alive, all seemingly healthy. I don't even see some/most of these tanks as being overstocked, at least not to the detriment of the fish. Phillip, good thing you weren't a member back in the early days when JDM tanks were popular. I'm a low stock type of guy, but that's just a personal philosophy, not a law carved in stone for all fish keepers.
The reality is you have no idea. Your comments are by and large based on nothing more than assumptions.
AND, back to the simple fact of these fish are alive, all seemingly healthy. I don't even see some/most of these tanks as being overstocked, at least not to the detriment of the fish. Phillip, good thing you weren't a member back in the early days when JDM tanks were popular. I'm a low stock type of guy, but that's just a personal philosophy, not a law carved in stone for all fish keepers.
The reality is you have no idea. Your comments are by and large based on nothing more than assumptions.
Dude, I see your point but your logic is off and it makes me think that you have a personal beef with him or something.
He's using his personal funds to take care of animals that were the result of other people's stupid decisions. These fish would have been dumped into a river or died miserably in a tiny tank. I'd say fish who wind up in one of Big Rich's tanks are lucky.
The first time I saw his videos I actually teared up a little at his kindness. He doesn't need to do any of this. He could be spending his money on sick cars or upgrading his house or whatever. But he chooses to spend his money (and time) to care for animals that otherwise would die due to irresponsible fish stores and fish buyers. How could that ever be bad?
What do you mean he can't take care of himself, BTW? That's a personal attack. His health is his business.
He's using his personal funds to take care of animals that were the result of other people's stupid decisions. These fish would have been dumped into a river or died miserably in a tiny tank. I'd say fish who wind up in one of Big Rich's tanks are lucky.
The first time I saw his videos I actually teared up a little at his kindness. He doesn't need to do any of this. He could be spending his money on sick cars or upgrading his house or whatever. But he chooses to spend his money (and time) to care for animals that otherwise would die due to irresponsible fish stores and fish buyers. How could that ever be bad?
What do you mean he can't take care of himself, BTW? That's a personal attack. His health is his business.
MFK has been on a downhill skid for a while. But threads to bash a fellow MFK member take MFK to a new level of low. Thanks to all who came to Bigrich's defense. He's a good guy in my book, and I have nothing but respect for him in his efforts to save fish.
Nail on the head.
PR: Everything I said is true.
TBTB: Speaking of untouchables... Rich is untouchable? Guess what, you must be too, right? What a pinnacle of arrogance to use as an intro to one's post. Doesn't get any more haughty than that. IMHO, most of what you said is groundless, experienceless babble, and way overreaching and dire statements that you call the big word "TRUTH", but they are based on your thoughts, which, you know for sure and all know it and can see it, are assumptions. It makes you look uninterested in the truth.
PR: It's not hating at least from me it is not
TBTB: That's wonderful. I do actually agree with the poster above; that speaks well of you that you keep your cool. I like it.
PR: I agree that you can look at it from helping the fish. I also agree the fish keeper original one is definitely the cause of this. Same goes with LFS but less so as it's not their responsibility. It's the consumer.
TBTB: I agree with you, bro, here too.
PR: My standpoint, and no one has to agree with me, is that anyone who takes in a fish weather rescued or purchased from a store had the same obligation to care for that fish properly.
TBTB: I agree with you. But you seem to understand "proper" as in "ideal" or something close to it, while these are two completely different words. Nothing is ideal on Earth. I suggest to include the words "adequate", "improved", "better", and "worse" in your vocabulary too. They come in handy.
PR: It's my opinion, again no one has to agree, that these fish are not properly being cared for.
TBTB: Fine. Yet, this is groundless and based on the most superficial of observations - I see many fish, I cry "Bad husbandry!". You stock your 75 gal light and your biggest fish is 2"? Fine. Kudos for you. That could be close to an ideal. But you probably have no idea how to run a large tank. Someone with twenty 2'-3' fish in a 4400 gal can be fine too. There are ways to make the water be pristine and the stress minimal or nonexistent.
PR: Are they better off somewhere else I don't know.
TBTB: I think you are being coy. The only other options for these fish are inhumane keeping and continued suffering, local waterways, or death. What other options do you you have in mind when you say what you say that'd be equal or better than at the OFR and then, in turn, at the zoos and public aquaria? There are none, I think, but do share, please.
PR: It's sad that we can't strive for a good life for these fish but one that is just meh...
TBTB: It sounds that you are on MFK by some kind of mistake. This is MFK, bro. We all keep or train to keep giant fish. Now some of it science and some of it is belief but if we thought we are hurting our pets, most of us would not be doing it. You can accuse us all of cluelessness and of the animal abuse for our entertainment, just as well, it seems to me.
PR: Can you honestly tell me his wife's koi is all rescues? They are crammed in there with hardly any room to move.
TBTB: You just said yourself, rescues or not, it doesn't matter. Why contradict yourself? They move just fine in the video (what is this need to use dire exaggerations and hiperbolas?) plus neither you nor we know how long they will be there and where they are going next. By your logic, we should cry over fish being shipped in small bags - look at them! They can't move! This is awful! That's the same you are doing here, bro. You don't know where they come from, you don't know where they are going to, and when they will be there but yet you find enough "indignation and compassion for the fish" to cry: Foul! Foul! Foul! You only expose yourself in a negative light, is all.
PR: Those alligator Gar the all white ones in a split tank with again nearly any room.
TBTB: See above.
PR: If I kept that same situation I would be *****ed on here by many of you but because he is doing it he gets a free pass.
TBTB: No one gets a free pass. It's merely a matter of explaining and understanding everyone's situation. I dislike throat jumpers and self-righteous flame-throwers on MFK no less than you do and I am against them. People who don't respect in the first and foremost place the freedom and the person in their fellow peer and cover it up with love for animals are hypocrites and harm doers in my book.
PR: If everyone buy a monster at a young age only to think he big rich will take it when it gets to big, this is definitely sending the wrong message.
TBTB: If. That's right. If. You are supposing. Let it be known to you that the OFR (and our humble rescue) have set it as one of the main charters to prevent exactly what you are talking about. By raising awareness... that is, in those responsive (let the stupid remain stupid and learn or not from their own blunders). Then when formerly clueless donors bring their overgrown fish in, the first offence is forgiven and used for their education. Second is never unless it was irreversible at the time of the first rescue. Third, never. You are the one sending the wrong message with your accusations while instead you could have asked: How do you handle this?
PR: Overstocking.
TBTB: A fair concern. I can paste what I answer those asking me the same question - how it is that I believe I keep my rescues and non rescues properly. It's two pages of text, if you want. I can tag Rich and Josh, they are both members here, and they could explain it too.
PR: Feeding hot dogs and god only know what other fillers (no i don't eat hot dogs, I wouldn't feed it to my dog.)
TBTB: Another emotional presumptive outburst of negative, wrong, and distrating value... Anyhow, I never do it either but I understand that in moderation and not as an exclusive diet it is practiced by some MFKers. As RD stated, they use the leanest hotdog. Give them a million $ and ask them to stop and they gladly will, if you are so concerned for their fish wellbeing. But you won't do it. You won't give them $10. People like you are good paper critics but prove worthless in reality.
PR: Hoarding, there is no way he can take care of everything properly, its simply too much for him.
TBTB: You are just using generalistic considerations and ephemeral conjectures while their results are real, time proven, and show otherwise. As stated again, zoos and aquaria would not take fish in poor condition. All their fish look healthy and adequate.
PR: Any test his water? I bet good money many of his tanks have extreme high level of nitrates.
TBTB: Too late for your reputation but at least keep your money. You are, of course, wrong again. They use pothos filters to take out nitrates. Before that they did insane by normal standards water changes but it was expensive, so they built live green filters. Still do decent WCs. Their ammonia and nitrite are always firmly at zero ppm.
PR: he has been overstocking since day 1
TBTB: First, this was temporary and an emergency rescue wherein Josh drove from Ohio to Washington State and back on an epic journey, on which they haven't lost a single fish. It was a feat. Second, the water was ammonia and nitrite free. Third, most of these fish already reside right now in zoos and public aquaria having spent 3-5 years at their place and staying healthy. How does this achievement stack up against your empty words, you think?
PR: If i did this in my 1500G you would all say great things yeah?
TBTB: If you were doing the same thing, we'd say: Kudos for you! Can we help somehow? But you are not. You're a paper tiger and a laptop fish lover.
PR: The ones here who ***** about a red devil in a 75 or a oscar in a 90 need to shake their heads.
TBTB: At the face value, I'd agree with you. As I said before, I don't like people disrespecting other people's freedom.
PR: I can start pulling post from probably all of you here offering advice in which someone has a not so ideal setup and everyone jumping down their throats.
TBTB: Spare us the humiliation, please
Enough of yours, self-inflicted one.PR: Big rich clearly is untouchable here, and thats okay with me, but I will not agree that he is not mistreating this giants.
TBTB: See my first comment.
PR: its better than death buts its besides the point.
TBTB: Beside the point?? Shall we revisit the definition of rescue? ... I see. If it's less than ideal, it is improper and wrong. What planet are you from? .... Also, how about you buying fish for your consumption from a supermarket or anywhere else? Is this also beside the point? Cuz almost all of them are raised at 10x-100x the density of fish at the OFR. Holy overstock!!! Why not take up that noble fight or at least boycott both farmed fish (to stay true to your high ideals) and the wild caught fish (to preserve the wild stocks, of course)? Cut out the fish, bro. Take your omegas in the pill form.
PR: If we all use this same mentality then most aquarist are doing amazing things for these fish.
TBTB: Way to muddle up everything and throw out all babies with the bathwater. What mentality? The OFR does a wonderful and commendable job in everyone's eyes but yours. Is it ideal? Nope. Is anything? Nope. Should we drop everything then and frantically look for an extension cord? I beg you: No, please!
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