To Styro or Not to Styro?

[Pyramid_Party]

So whats the official word? Styro good or not? What kinda styro you guys use and where you get it?

 

[12 Volt Man]

ya im lost
if it pushes up to the glass "and it shouldnt ever lol" then its glass on styro
and many tanks sit flat on the styro

but they don't. only the bottom trim/brace sits on the styrol. the bottom glass is not supposed to touch it.

in cases where it does, from what I understand, could potentially cause a problem.

again, all of this is just what I have read, I cannot validate any of it.

it could be all wrong..

I don't use styro and so far so good...so....

I guess the official answer is "it depends"?

 

[SteveR]

I'm just curious about the personal opinions with setting up large GLASS tanks. I understand that it is very useful with acrylic tanks (which I still question it validity in some aspects), but I want to test the water about glass.

I myself believe that the Styro underneath glass is 95% useless. I will give 2.5% to the leveling factor of foam, although there seems to be this big idea that closed-cell foam will really make huge differences. Then, I will give 2.5% to the warm and comfy feeling factor that everyone seems to have after using Styro.

I contribute my interpretation to the three factors that are generally view when lookin at leveling a tank. Front-to-back leveling, side-to-side leveling, & corner-to-corner leveling. I will adress each individually.

1. Front-to-back leveling - You should attempt to have it as level as possible, but most tank have a stress factor figured it, so some slight variance is acceptable. There is some points that show an unlevel tank that is set up for a while and then moved and re-level might have more of a tendency to have a seam burst.Thoughts & facts?

2. Side-to-side leveling - Basically the same as front-to-back with the exception that the variance may be a little wider of a tolerance.

3. Corner-to-corner leveling - this is the crucial point in ensuring that your tank will not fail. If the opposite corners are off, this will lead to twisting of the tank and ultimate failure by cracking or seams bursting.

Now, I accept that foam will allow for small impuities such as small rocks due to the pressure created. This is somewhat useless when dealing with glass because most tanks are built with a plastic trim. this si what contacts the stand, not the tank. Likelood hood of rock should be non if you dust the stand first.
But what I have a hard time believing is that as the pressure is exerted on to the foam the foam will compensate for the pressure. If a tank is unlevel, with equal distribution of weight the foam should compress the same amount around the entire tank. Whether the tank is twisting or not is almost irrelevent with the foam. How is it possible for foam to account for varience in the leveling of the tank?

If you would like to contribute to this argument, please contribute supportive factual data as I hope this could to be a learning tool. But everyone should feel free to participate in the pole.

You are wrong about your last point - you don't understand it.

Pressure = force / Area Pressure on high points increases MASSIVELY and thats when foam or styro interfaces work.

 

[SteveR]

The last two posts are correct, Styro doesn't do any leveling at all. That is not what it is supposed to be used for. It's used to absorb inconsistencies in the tank frame or stand, for example: If there is a piece of gravel on the stand that you missed and the tank frame is sitting right on it, then it could cause major problems down the road. Or if there is a nail sticking out of the stand right where the frame rests, it could also cause tank failure. That's where the foam comes in but of course you can easily avoid these inconsistencies and unless your tank is recessed in the stand the foam looks ugly. I say no to styro under glass tanks as long as you check the surface of the stand and the bottom of the tank frame for problems.

Exactly!

 

[Bluey]

I aways use styro , we don't have "edges" on our glass tanks over here.Seen alot of big tanks crack becuase of no stryo and the wood stand has warped with warm summers and gold winters.

 

[SteveR]

On an big acrylic, I would probably use foam too. But here is my thought. Just because the dips are there, does not necessarily mean that the tank is being support. Yes, the foam did not compress as much in that certain location, but is it really supporting the tank. In theory, the foam would have to be stronger/thicker in that location to offer the true support needed for a high spot.
For a simplistic explaination, that tank could still be off and the foam is just creating the illusion that it is aiding maintaining an eye view state of level.

What are everyones thoughts on that?

Incorrect, im an engineer that I have to keep you coming back to rudinmentary P=F/A. It doesnt need to be thicker, that isn't the principal.

For arguements sake, put a piece of gravel under a tank with an inch of styro below it. Fill it. If i pressure tested the base the pressure would be uniform I can assure you as I speak from years experience.

 

[Potts050]

Interesting discusion...I must live in a place whre gravity works a little differantly. I use foam under all my tanks. It reduces heat loss and does in fact ensure my tanks are 'dead nuts' level. My OCD drives me nuts if the water level is higher at one end than the other.

Think of your tank set on foam as floating on it. If your using the less dense foam (the cheap white stuff made from expanded polystyrene beads) then your tank will settle level, the same as a cubic block of wood would do on a still pond. Your tank stand has to be reasonably level to begin with and it needs to be a large enough tank to significantly deflect the foam in the first place. A thirty gallon tank is about the minimum size in my experience to realize the levelling benefit of foam...

The idea that foam could cause your tank to crack....well....now thats just goofy!

 

[Danger_Chicken]

from what I understand, it actually CAN hurt, depending on the stand setup.

if your tank were on a stand that has a top like a table, and you place a modern glass tank (with braced frame on the bottom) on top of foam, you can get a sitution where the tank pushes down on the foam such that the bottom glass itself can be forced down upon the foam, which is in turn forced down upon the stand.

this creates a situation where the foam/stand are pushing UP on the glass (as it pushes down between the braces) which normally would be 'floating'.

this can lead to a cracked bottom.

its sort of hard to explain, but its newtons law of action/reaction at work.

tank glass that is normally floating is not floating anymore and is being pushed up as it pushes down.

this can cause fractures apparently.

The thing is the stryo isn't going to compress enough to reach the bottom of the tank. I used high denstiy 1/2" and it barely compressed under 2,400lbs.

 

[12 Volt Man]

the high density insulation type stuff won't, but a thin sheet of regular cheap styro might.

I will try and find the link to the page about the styro leading to a cracked bottom on a modern braced tank.

maybe it is totally wrong I don't know.

I have seen it mentioned on this site before - that stryo can lead to a cracked bottom..I assume this is what people are talking about..

 

[ghengis]

I use Styrofoam. I don't have any ]v[onster tanks though, the largest (so far) being 70L (18gal). I use it for similar reasons to those that have been mentioned; inconsistencies in stand surface, thermal barrier and vibration resistance. To hide the fact, I took the time to paint it the same colour as the stand, prior to filling. Thus...