Today in the Fishroom ~ Parachromis dovii “red morph”

[Modest_Man]

I’m confused by the video posted. If you look at his videos on ou tube, he has white, xanthic and regular. So are all fish shown above from the same parents? Or is it a tank full of grow outs with some of each?

It's been a couple years since I emailed with him but from what I recall Mauricio Parra's relative collected a red male and he spawned it with a normal female and then crossed the red male back with its daughter to get more colored offspring. The juveniles in the video are from that pairing. All the fish shown are from the same parents.

He got the first wild fish almost exactly 5 years ago. No way is there line breeding for colors going on yet - it's been 4-5 generations max.

My thoughts are that the color process is just like in Amphilophus, where colored parents can throw many different colored offspring.

Just watched a few more of his videos on YouTube and found this tidbit in the comments- "These are actually second generation and yes, they have successfully spawned. Their siblings have displayed these colors: completely orange like them, completely white, completely pink and half orange half pink. One of the first wild caught was orange with a black face".

 

[Aquamojo]

It's been a couple years since I emailed with him but from what I recall Mauricio Parra's relative collected a red male and he spawned it with a normal female and then crossed the red male back with its daughter to get more colored offspring. The juveniles in the video are from that pairing. All the fish shown are from the same parents.

He got the first wild fish almost exactly 5 years ago. No way is there line breeding for colors going on yet - it's been 4-5 generations max.

My thoughts are that the color process is just like in Amphilophus, where colored parents can throw many different colored offspring.

Just watched a few more of his videos on YouTube and found this tidbit in the comments- "These are actually second generation and yes, they have successfully spawned. Their siblings have displayed these colors: completely orange like them, completely white, completely pink and half orange half pink. One of the first wild caught was orange with a black face".

So this guy is the source of the red dovii currently in the hobby??? If so, the way you've described it is a textbook line breeding technique utilizing both out crossing AND inbreeding. Starting first by crossing two adults from different parents to get a selected desirable trait. Mating between related fish is inbreeding and will increase the probability that the two copies of any given gene will be identical. That would would support my statement about them throwing a variety of "flavors". At some levels it's disappointing...at least to me. That said...let's see what happens. Still a cool looking fish.

 

[PhishMon84]

When I heard about red dovii my assumption was it would be similar to amphilophus sp.
It sounds like your expectation was more along the lines of the Petenia splendida and it’s two morphs.
I can see how ppl would be hopeful of either.

 

[RD.]

A single inbreeding event, if that's all that has taken place, doesn't equate to much of a line breeding program.

 

[Trimapit]

I think it's too premature to be considered line breeding. It would still at this point be inbreeding, right? If it I only 4 or so generations.....
And wasn't the "explanation" that they have only been found at a certain River of Costa Rica..... in a certain area..... at a deeper depth...... etc.
Now there is a "regular" Costa Rican female added in?
This may be a dumb question, but has anyone done DNA testing on these yet?

 

[RD.]

If they are like Amphilophus, the vast majority of offspring in the wild would be "regular" looking, with only a small percentage (10%) taking on a different color morph. Hard to say what actually took place without some additional confirmation from the breeder. Perhaps Jamie can add to this.

 

[Modest_Man]

All the red dovii in the states have come from Mauricio Parra's lineage to the best of my knowledge. His email is all over his Youtube Channel. If someone wants to email him he was very helpful when I had questions years ago.

I like the analogy comparing the P. splendida and Ampilophus morphs. One throws just red individuals, one throws white, yellow, orange, red, and combinations of colors. One follows simple Mendelian genetics, one does not. These dovii trend to the Ampilophus genetics. You can even see that in the old school photo. The fish has black on it's lips and black on its tail where it never fully "peeled".

One cross back to a daughter to get colored individuals (of all colors) is quite different than selectively breeding for a white fish, or a yellow fish, or orange fish. Which is what I think Mo was alluding to in the original post. From what I've seen that isn't even possible with Ampilophus, you can select for colored individuals but not specific colors.

I want some.

 

[RD.]

All the red dovii in the states have come from Mauricio Parra's lineage to the best of my knowledge. His email is all over his Youtube Channel. If someone wants to email him he was very helpful when I had questions years ago.

I like the analogy comparing the P. splendida and Ampilophus morphs. One throws just red individuals, one throws white, yellow, orange, red, and combinations of colors. One follows simple Mendelian genetics, one does not. These dovii trend to the Ampilophus genetics. You can even see that in the old school photo. The fish has black on it's lips and black on its tail where it never fully "peeled".

One cross back to a daughter to get colored individuals (of all colors) is quite different than selectively breeding for a white fish, or a yellow fish, or orange fish. Which is what I think Mo was alluding to in the original post. From what I've seen that isn't even possible with Ampilophus, you can select for colored individuals but not specific colors.

I want some.

Yeah, I don't see a down side to this, quite the opposite. Creamsicle dovii, that opens up a whole new door to the world of dovii.

 

[Aquamojo]

One cross back to a daughter to get colored individuals (of all colors) is quite different than selectively breeding for a white fish, or a yellow fish, or orange fish. Which is what I think Mo was alluding to in the original post. From what I've seen that isn't even possible with Ampilophus, you can select for colored individuals but not specific colors.

I want some.

Regardless of how many times it's done it is still a line breeding technique. Cross one of each from two different lines. Then inbreed to enhance a desired effect. I agree...not much of a program. But line breeding none the less by all definition.

 

[Aquamojo]

Honestly...after thinking this all through, I am a little less excited about having them. I'll keep them, but not what I expected.