Today in the Fishroom ~ Parachromis dovii “red morph”

[RD.]

Regardless of how many times it's done it is still a line breeding technique. Cross one of each from two different lines. Then inbreed to enhance a desired effect. I agree...not much of a program. But line breeding none the less by all definition.

Hey Mo, from what I can gather off of youtube the owner/breeder's cousin caught these dovii in the San Juan River, so it's not like he was breeding two different lines. What he did was no different than someone breeding two wild caught citrinellus from the same lake in Nicaragua, one that is a "gold" morph, and the other being a regular colored variant. The only twist is he later bred his red male to one of the original pairs offspring, in the hope of more red dovii. Call it whatever one wants, it certainly opened up the door to some very different colored dovii.

My cousin, who lives on the Costarican side of the San Juan river, caught them somewhere along the San Juan riverbank. Mi primo, quién vive al lado costarricense del Río San Juan, los pescó en algún punto a lo largo del río.

 

[Aquamojo]

Call it whatever one wants, it certainly opened up the door to some very different colored dovii.

Agreed. The real interesting part will be to see what happens when the two I have breed. It's all good.

 

[Modest_Man]

Yeah, I don't see a down side to this, quite the opposite. Creamsicle dovii, that opens up a whole new door to the world of dovii.

Haha, exactly my thought. I would love to get a pair and sort through the spawns for some neat colors.

 

[Zuloo]

Wow, this is a very interesting subject...Dovii that morph? I remember seeing those red dovii on YouTube about 2 years ago and it was hard for me to believe that there was not some hybridization going on at some level. My question is: knowing where the first specimen originated from why have none been discovered before? I understand nature is amazing and well beyond human understanding in many ways, but I find the discovery of red dovii absolutely amazing; as to how it could come into existence naturally without hybridization. I’m just stirring the proverbial pot so to speak...lol. What are you guys opinion about the red dovii that produces offspring which morph actually surviving as a thriving species in its natural habitat? Go easy on me brothers and sisters, I’m anxious to learn.

 

[Modest_Man]

They have been known about. For at least 50 years. One of the first dovii in captivity was red - look at the scanned photo Mo posted. They are hard to find and hard to catch in the wild. I remember reading the Don Conkel caught two in the early 2000's but they died when the vat they were in broke. If 1-5% of the dovii in this area are red if you catch 100 dovii then you may get 1-5 red ones. Color morphs of cichlids in the wild is nothing new, look at P. splendida, Ampilophus, etc.

A couple quotes I dug up-

I am a bit late on this thread but I wanted to share what I know. The photo that AquaMojo posted is actually a picture of Charlene the first Dovii in the hobby. It was given to the late great Gene Wolfsheimer in the mid 1960's. At the time Central American Cichlids were just coming into the hobby and fetched astronomical prices. I believe Red Devils were about $500 each in the beginning. Since this fish was red it was believed to be another form of Red Devil when it was first imported. Gene was given the fish at about 1 to 2 inches in size. He thought the fish was a male and named it Charley. When the fish grew to about 12 inches and became quite famous in hobbyist circles it laid eggs and Gene changed it's name to Charlene. This was the only Dovii in the hobby at the time. I have a copy of the original slide of this fish. In the mid 80's I redid the slide tape program for Central American Cichlids for the ACA and this was one of the many slides I had access to. I also heard many stories about this fish from Guy Jordan (who had an even more famous Dovii - Pablo). In any case I have been on the hunt for a Red Dovii since the mid 1970's. I got very close last year when Don Conkel supposedly caught two on a fish catching expedition. I was offered one of the fish for $300 (if I remember correctly). Don told Kevin (owner of a place for pets in Seattle) that the fish was killed when the vat it was in broke. I was bitterly disappointed. The search goes on....

Mel's comments are correct in all particulars. The Rio Puerto Viejo population of Parachromis dovii seems to produce a few oligomelanic individuals on a pretty consistent basis. They are definitely very rare and as the river is both quite deep and rocky, the only way to catch these individuals is by hook and line. This is less difficult than it seems, as these fish are, to put mildly, pretty conspicuous - which is doubtless explains why these oligomelanic individuals are so rare. Don has been trying for years to secure brood stock of these fish and I am sorry to learn that he came so close only to loose the animals. One can only hope that he keeps on trying.

I also found the wild juvenile photo I was talking about that is white and not red....from Mo.

 

[Zuloo]

Thanks for the response Modest_Man. As I read the information you provided I understand more firmly about the discovery of the red dovii. Now for more questions...lol. Since the red dovii was discovered over 50 years ago in the same waters as what we know as the “common” dovii, is it the assumption that the 2 variants do not breed together in their natural habitat? And if so, wouldn’t the red gene be stamped into the dna of many “common” dovii? Now, as much as dovii “has been and still are” being bred in the hobby shouldn’t we see more red dovii show up? Sounds like this dovii variant is more of an anomaly as opposed to any sort of standard. Thanks again for the information...can we dig a little deeper?

 

[Aquamojo]

I also found the wild juvenile photo I was talking about that is white and not red....from Mo.

This looks more like what I have in the tank right now. And again, unfortunately, it looks like they are getting ready to spawn. Too small for that...but breeding young, IMHO, does make better fish parents.

 

[TigerTalon1]

My question is how he got the original Gold Male Dovii? Why would he interbreed it then introduce the fry to the hobby? That’s going to cause deformities later on, this seems like a recipe for disaster in my opinion.

 

[TigerTalon1]

I mean I’m not tearing down his contributions but why destroy the purity of the species? Has anybody else noticed that the in the video also have strange looking body shapes? Maybe these are some sort of Thailand imported artificially enseminated parachromis/amphilophus hybrids?

 

[RD.]

I mean I’m not tearing down his contributions but why destroy the purity of the species? Has anybody else noticed that the in the video also have strange looking body shapes? Maybe these are some sort of Thailand imported artificially enseminated parachromis/amphilophus hybrids?

See prior posts, the person who originally bred the red morph got the fish from his cousin, who caught it in the San Juan River. He didn't interbreed anything, the fish are all wild and pure.