Too deep of a substrate?

[tiger15]

Are those real plants? If so, the substrate is not deep as plants need depth to anchor roots. Plant roots oxigenate substrate to some extent and anaerobic zone benefits plants by turning iron and other metals into bioavailable form plants can utilize. Just make sure when you do WC, only vaccuum the surface and don't disturb the deep anaerobic zone. One trick to do so is to tie a chopstick at the end of the siphon tube so it cannot reach too deep and over suck.

But if you have no plants, the substrate is definitely too deep as you have no need to accommodate plants. Since only the top 1/2 inch is aerobic, you need no more than an inch substrate to optimize beneficial bacterial habitat.

 

[tlindsey]

OK so with every water change just run my fingers through the sand to disturb it? My discus are safe for delivery?

Yes make sure you change up area each time. Yes get your Discus.

 

[jacobfata]

The substrate is four to five inches deep at points and yes all plants are real and I plan to add more. I have ten two inch checkerboard discus coming in and I want them to be ok. I’ve done all the research in the world and now I have someone here telling me I’ll have to do daily 50% water changes or my discus will die... so many different opinions here lol.

 

[twentyleagues]

You need to keep your parameters inline if that requires you to do 50% daily wc then that's what you need to do. I doubt you will need to do 50% daily. Test test test. Sounds like you are a little green in the fish keeping game? Deep sand beds can cause anaerobic areas that will allow beneficial anaerobic bacteria to grow that will help remove nitrates(the byproduct of proper filtration), which in turn will create nitrogen gas as a byproduct. The nitrogen gas could build up creating pockets in the substrate that will get released after enough pressure is created. That isnt harmful. Now if detritous gets trapped and rots that can create a more sinister issue. If that happens it can kill off your beneficial bacteria in the area and create noxious gasses that could release toxins into the tank. Probably not going to happen but could. Plants will help. And anerobic areas are mostly fine, let the deeper areas be See if you get that extra benefit of anerobic bacteria growing and helping you keep your nitrates down. It could only help prove the 50% daily wc nuts wrong. My buddy has a few tanks and one tank is 30 or 36" deep its substrate is 10-12" and its a pretty big tank like a weird 150g or something 5' long. Any way he has nothing but a heater and a bunch of airlines in it he doesnt do anything to it except top off water. Its heavily planted and fish breed in it constantly. Livebearers and rams. He doesnt fertilize the plants or add co2, he doesnt do water changes either. He still uses two 150w mh over it as he says it helps keep the temp up around 85f . I have tested the water and its pristine! Tank has been running as long as ive known him which is at least 15 years. He has never had a tank ending gas bubble. There is a large area in the middle of the tank that has no plants its a big sandy spot where he feeds and everything comes out of the woodworks to feed. I love the tank but I'm one of the cant leave it alone types that could never achieve that type of nirvana.

 

[mattybecks]

Would you consider adding Malaysian Trumpet Snails? I understand they are good with plants and burrow into the soil during the day. Keeps the substrate lightly 'turned" as they go through it.
I know some people don't like the snails, if there is excess food they do breed very quickly, but I have enjoyed them in my tanks. And only ever see them at night when the tank is dark and they come out.
My sand beds are 5 - 6 cm thick, never had an issue. I have heard of these rumors, but never actually heard of any real stories regarding these poisonous bubbles.

 

[skjl47]

Hello; I have been at this hobby for a while but have not arranged substrate the way you have so cannot say from experience. From reading the last nine years there is a caution about using sand as a substrate. I guess it is due to the small particle size which can pack together tightly.
One thing reported is a chance of anaerobic gas pockets being formed. Two solutions are often suggested. One is to keep the sand an inch or less and the other is to often stir up the sand so any pockets get broken up. Neither is practical in your setup.

I use deep substrate in my tanks. At least four inches and sometimes much deeper. I use a small gravel from about bb size to small pea size. I also have live rooted plants in almost all my tanks. I figure the larger particles cannot pack tightly and will leave spaces between. Anyway my plants grow well.

I have used sand but stopped a few decades ago. My plants did not seem to grow as well and the lighter color of the sand did wash out the colors of the fish. I like the way the fish look over a darker substrate.

I do not know from experience if your setup is at risk. Were it my tank I would siphon out the sand layer during a few WC until only the dark substrate is left. I would then add more of the dark substrate if deeper is desired. Bear in mind if the dark substrate is fine particles similar to sand then you are not any better off.

 

[duanes]

Deep sand beds have been used in salt water aquaria for years, to provide an anoxic area for the type bacterial species that help reduce nitrate.
I have used them in freshwater tanks to that end, with deep areas that also provide space for plant root growth.
And use burrowing snails to help break down organic material that can get stuck, and create hydrogen sulfide gas pockets. Although with sand, most debris sits on top, unlike gravel where it easily works in the large interstitial gaps
As long as debris is promptly vacuumed up with water changes, they have not been problematic for me.
From your photos it looks like you are consummate vacuumer, and your tank is immaculate.

These type snails are mostly nocturnal, so only seen, just as the lights go on, but they then quickly drop back into the substrate, they do provide a modicum of algae control, but as you can see, I like algae, and they are not a problem for me, in that regard. I believe they prefer certain algal species, leaving the tough stuff I like.

 

[pacu mom]

Do a search on hydrogen sulfide gas in fish tanks. The anaerobic bacteria that produce hydrogen sulfide also consume nitrates, so it is possible to have excellent water parameters, i.e., low nitrates, and have hydrogen sulfide gas. The two cases of hydrogen sulfide poisoning that I have read about involved poor tank maintenance. The fish keepers admitted that when they got around to doing a thorough cleaning of the substrate, the stuff they removed was very dark. Their fish died suddenly. Hydrogen sulfide has a rotten egg smell.

Here's an article that recommends stirring the substrate weekly, or keeping the substrate thin (1") The author doesn't like sand...
http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/wiki/Hydrogen_sulphide

Research hydrogen sulfide to know the risks, and then come up with a plan that will work for you.

 

[HarleyK]

The average substrate depth in rivers and lakes is 4,000 miles on planet earth

I wouldn’t worry. I have deep substrate in my planted tanks, MTS, and never had a problem.

 

[twentyleagues]

Hydrogen sulfide is not a byproduct of nitrate consumption . Hydrogen sulfide is or can be produced when organics are broken down by anaerobic bacteria. This happens when you mess with the substrate or its porous enough to trap particles deep down. There is also a idea in salt water that the substrate needs to be shallow like an inch or less or 4 or more inches. The theory is that the in between is susceptable to being anaerobic enough to grow the bacteria but porous enough to trap organics. So in the above if you have a deep substrate of say 5" you are producing anaerobic bacteria and its consuming nitrates and a plant dies the roots could become organic waste and be consumed by the anaerobic bacteria creating hydrogen sulfide gasses. I'm sure it happens, but i think overall it's less of a reality and more a possibility. In that situation or those like it I think the majority of that waste is used by the plants or other possible micro fauna before there is issue.