Troubleshoot my constantly sick tank, please

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
Ha, yeah I am slowly trying to buod up the stock, but seem to get set back every month with this sickness problem.

I do take out the carbon when I medicate. But I do change it every four to six months because that is what the manufacturer actually recommends... I forget the name of it (chemi-pure maybe?)

If I was to wait six months to clean the filter, I know it would be absolutely filthy... is that not a problem?

I will bump up the temps and see how much that helps. I will be doing a water change this weekend and am thinking of putting some salt in there for "extra" medication. I am waiting on my new lights before I put in more plants, but am looking into a new piece of driftwood for an extra place for them to hide. I am doing whatever I can to keep this tank.

Keep all your input coming, I appreciate it all.

Oh also, I promise you guys this is an 80 gallon tank.
 
hcky4206sic6;2977336; said:
Ha, yeah I am slowly trying to buod up the stock, but seem to get set back every month with this sickness problem.

I do take out the carbon when I medicate. But I do change it every four to six months because that is what the manufacturer actually recommends... I forget the name of it (chemi-pure maybe?) you still dont need carbon in all the time. the manufacturer just wants you to spend money on their carbon product, doesnt mean you need it. you could have extra mechanical filtration in that space. carbon also makes life tough for your plants. it absorbs the nutrients plants use to grow. if you take it out and let the plants be your chemical filter they will thrive and be healthy and will also help to maintain stable perameters and lower nitrate. still use it to take meds out of the water but other than that your wasting your money.

If I was to wait six months to clean the filter, I know it would be absolutely filthy... is that not a problem? Im not saying for you to follow my regime exactly. i mean that you dont need to do it as often, just look out for signs of flow loss and more particulates in the water. the less you tamper with the filter the better. i have and have had much messier fish than all of your put together and i stick with my 6 month regime. some people will disagree but i never have a problem so if it aint broke dont fix it. yes it will get filthy but that means its doing its job. less fiddling means less chance of problems occuring.

I will bump up the temps and see how much that helps. this is a must, even if you dont think its not doing much you need to have a stable temperature for your fish or you will continue to encounter problems.
I will be doing a water change this weekend and am thinking of putting some salt in there for "extra" medication. I am waiting on my new lights before I put in more plants, but am looking into a new piece of driftwood for an extra place for them to hide. I am doing whatever I can to keep this tank. low light plants include anubias and java fern/moss. the fern and anubias are tied to bogwood so they can attatch to it and the look fab once the cable ties or fishing twine is off.

Keep all your input coming, I appreciate it all.

Oh also, I promise you guys this is an 80 gallon tank.

fire away with anymore questions. and the best bit of advice i can give you is listen to the people here. some, like me, have been doing this for a long time. since we were kids.
dont give up, everybody hiccups on their first tank or two. it takes time to learn.
 
you still dont need carbon in all the time. the manufacturer just wants you to spend money on their carbon product, doesnt mean you need it. you could have extra mechanical filtration in that space. carbon also makes life tough for your plants. it absorbs the nutrients plants use to grow. if you take it out and let the plants be your chemical filter they will thrive and be healthy and will also help to maintain stable perameters and lower nitrate. still use it to take meds out of the water but other than that your wasting your money.

Very interesting. I haven't heard until now that carbon is actually bad for your plants. I will take your advice though and throw it back in there to take out the rest of the medicine. It seems that the velvet may still be on the fish though. I also have a tendancy to misdiagnose problems as well. But they did actually have some spots on their eyes... so I'm thinking I may have been correct this time. Is there anything else I can do to try and kill this velvet for sure? I know they are still living, but it doesn't seem as if the medicine is killing it completely.

Im not saying for you to follow my regime exactly. i mean that you dont need to do it as often, just look out for signs of flow loss and more particulates in the water. the less you tamper with the filter the better. i have and have had much messier fish than all of your put together and i stick with my 6 month regime. some people will disagree but i never have a problem so if it aint broke dont fix it. yes it will get filthy but that means its doing its job. less fiddling means less chance of problems occuring.


Well what I have been doing obviously isn't working, so it's worth a shot. The only thing that I know that needs to be changed more frequently though is my floss... that seems to get dirty in a months time. A problem with doing any maintenance on my filter, is when I turn it back on, a whole bunch of crap goes into the tank... probably left over in the tubes or just pushed through from the filter itself with that first rush of water when I turn it on... I sometimes think the fish trying to eat that stuff is the cause of sickness... but I'm sure I am wrong with that assumption... just trying to pinpoint it from just about anything now.


this is a must, even if you dont think its not doing much you need to have a stable temperature for your fish or you will continue to encounter problems.


I definitely think the temps is a large part of the problem... Priority number #1 for me right now.

low light plants include anubias and java fern/moss. the fern and anubias are tied to bogwood so they can attatch to it and the look fab once the cable ties or fishing twine is off.

I actually do have both fern and moss tied to two pieces of driftwood right now, and you're right they do look awesome. The lfs is where I first saw the idea and thought it was a great idea.


This is my second tank, and it is going better than my first. I have a friend who has a tank that he does absolutely nothing to and never has a problem... very aggrevating to hear.

Will salt be detrimental at this point? Will it even help with the "velvet"?
 
First off, i handle husbandry of fish, and aquatic herps (reptiles and amphibians) at the North Carolina Museum of Natural Sciences (largest Science Museum in the Southeast US). The only way to truly eliminate any parasite issue is to quarantine your animals, and to perform skin scrapes, gill and fin clips, and examine fresh fecal material. Necropsy of freshly dead or dying fish is also a method. All the fish that the public buy in stores or online usually come from one of two main sources: farms in Florida and Asia, or are wild caught. All these fish carry a variety of pathogens. Usually some form of stress causes an outbreak. Fish properly housed, fed, and maintained will live for years with these pathogens with no outward effects seen. So remember unless they have been quarantined and treated accordingly, all fish carry some form of pathogen. Now to the temperature issue, fluctuations between 3-8 degrees are acceptable. Water temp. is not uniformly stable in any aquatic environment. I know what some of you are thinking out there, but even on reefs (the most stable ecosystems on the planet) temperature is not stable. Look at tidal pools, you think that they don't cook at low tide, and what about 30 to 50 ft down, its gonna be cooler. Even in river systems ie. the Amazon. When it rains at high elevations, and the water runs down stream, it cools the water drastically, also shaded areas are gonna be cooler than areas in direct light. With tropical fish as long as you are above the 73-75 degree range you should be ok. However there are some species that after years of captive breeding in ideal conditions, they cannot handle these fluctuations (ie. clown loaches). So the advice from others to try and stay on the warm end is excellent advice. Your filtration sounds like it is ok. Carbon is ok to use anytime, remember this is a closed system, and you cannot over-filter a closed system. Just one thing, carbon looses its effectiveness at around 21 days. I use the highest quality, laboratory grade, carbon you can buy at the museum and after 15 days it is replaced. On my most sensitive fish i use ion exchange resins. NO AMOUNT OF FILTRATION CAN SUBSTITUTE REGULAR PARTIAL WATER CHANGES. The advice given earlier on your sponges, and media is dead on, and i would follow it. As far as medicating fish, try to avoid medicating the actual tank. A vast majority of the medications for sale can adversely affect your bio filter, and why would you want to medicate the other fish that are not showing signs of infection. I would recommend isolating the infected fish, and 2 partial water changes daily to keep NH3, and NO2 levels in check and use 3/4 of the recommended doses. I have found after 23 years its better to under medicate rather than over. So get you a couple of quality sponge filters and tanks to keep on hand for quarantine, and medicating, you will be very glad that you did in the long run. Decaying plant material should not pose a problem unless there is an abundance of it, Plants are an excellent source of nutrient export, and cover for your fish. However remember this, plants use CO2 during the day, but O2 at night, so it is imperative that there is adequate surface tension agitation when using plants. Gas exchange only happens at the surface (bubbles in the water column provide current, the bursting of them at the surface is where the gas exchange occurs). All in all except for using your gravel vac more diligently to help eliminate your worms, everything elso sounds ok. I do question some of the fish you have put together, but in a tank that large that should not be an issue. Where exactly are you purchasing your fish from, and how does this store have their tanks set up???? Also what do you clean the outside of your tank with??? Do you or your wife use air freshener, or carpet powder in the room where the tank is??? Do you rinse your hands well before you perform maintenance??? Sorry that i am soo longwinded, i do tend to ramble. Answer these questions at the end, and i will have more for you to narrow this down.
 
INTERPET AQUARIUM 7- ANTI SLIME/ VELVET and waterlife's protozin treat velvet. I am unsure what you have in the states if you dont have those 2.

if you want to change the floss every month then thats fine, its up to you. if its just a matter of removing the filter motor then removing floss from the top tray then you wont disturb the bacteria. the gunk that gets kicked back into the tank on switch on wont do your fish any harm, if you think about it its already in the water just in the filter instead of the tank.

as for the salt on the velvet, i dont know mate. ive never had to deal with velvet so i know very little about it.

as for the post above, why would you treat a single fish, get it healthy then throw it back in a tank full of the nasties that made the fish ill in the first place. if you dont treat the tank the infection will become a recurring problem.
 
megalopsatlanticus;2978340; said:
First off, i handle husbandry of fish, and aquatic herps (reptiles and amphibians) at the North Carolina Museum of Natural Sciences (largest Science Museum in the Southeast US). The only way to truly eliminate any parasite issue is to quarantine your animals, and to perform skin scrapes, gill and fin clips, and examine fresh fecal material. Necropsy of freshly dead or dying fish is also a method. All the fish that the public buy in stores or online usually come from one of two main sources: farms in Florida and Asia, or are wild caught. All these fish carry a variety of pathogens. Usually some form of stress causes an outbreak. Fish properly housed, fed, and maintained will live for years with these pathogens with no outward effects seen. So remember unless they have been quarantined and treated accordingly, all fish carry some form of pathogen. Now to the temperature issue, fluctuations between 3-8 degrees are acceptable. Water temp. is not uniformly stable in any aquatic environment. I know what some of you are thinking out there, but even on reefs (the most stable ecosystems on the planet) temperature is not stable. Look at tidal pools, you think that they don't cook at low tide, and what about 30 to 50 ft down, its gonna be cooler. Even in river systems ie. the Amazon. When it rains at high elevations, and the water runs down stream, it cools the water drastically, also shaded areas are gonna be cooler than areas in direct light. With tropical fish as long as you are above the 73-75 degree range you should be ok. However there are some species that after years of captive breeding in ideal conditions, they cannot handle these fluctuations (ie. clown loaches). So the advice from others to try and stay on the warm end is excellent advice. Your filtration sounds like it is ok. Carbon is ok to use anytime, remember this is a closed system, and you cannot over-filter a closed system. Just one thing, carbon looses its effectiveness at around 21 days. I use the highest quality, laboratory grade, carbon you can buy at the museum and after 15 days it is replaced. On my most sensitive fish i use ion exchange resins. NO AMOUNT OF FILTRATION CAN SUBSTITUTE REGULAR PARTIAL WATER CHANGES. The advice given earlier on your sponges, and media is dead on, and i would follow it. As far as medicating fish, try to avoid medicating the actual tank. A vast majority of the medications for sale can adversely affect your bio filter, and why would you want to medicate the other fish that are not showing signs of infection. I would recommend isolating the infected fish, and 2 partial water changes daily to keep NH3, and NO2 levels in check and use 3/4 of the recommended doses. I have found after 23 years its better to under medicate rather than over. So get you a couple of quality sponge filters and tanks to keep on hand for quarantine, and medicating, you will be very glad that you did in the long run. Decaying plant material should not pose a problem unless there is an abundance of it, Plants are an excellent source of nutrient export, and cover for your fish. However remember this, plants use CO2 during the day, but O2 at night, so it is imperative that there is adequate surface tension agitation when using plants. Gas exchange only happens at the surface (bubbles in the water column provide current, the bursting of them at the surface is where the gas exchange occurs). All in all except for using your gravel vac more diligently to help eliminate your worms, everything elso sounds ok. I do question some of the fish you have put together, but in a tank that large that should not be an issue. Where exactly are you purchasing your fish from, and how does this store have their tanks set up???? Also what do you clean the outside of your tank with??? Do you or your wife use air freshener, or carpet powder in the room where the tank is??? Do you rinse your hands well before you perform maintenance??? Sorry that i am soo longwinded, i do tend to ramble. Answer these questions at the end, and i will have more for you to narrow this down.

Thanks for all the info. I will have to read it again to take it all in fully, but nonetheless, very good info. To answer your questions, I buy my fis from a lfs... as for how they have their tanks set up, I can't give a straight answer because I do not know exactly what it is asking. I can say all of his tanks are very clean, has very good lighting and has disease free fish. I wait about a week before I buy a fish from him after it has come in and check how the other ones are doing after I have bough one. Any fish I have bought from him, never had a sick one like it. He has a quarrantine tank in his store also. He seems very reputable in my opinion.

I clean the outside of my tank with windex, and before you gasp, I spray the papertowel, not the glass... (to prevent from any mist going into the tank.)

We do not use air freshener as our house is april fresh everyday! Haha. And no carpet powder is used either.

I do wonder why you question the stocking of the tank... no offense was taken, just curious on your questioning.

cichlid2006;2978348; said:
INTERPET AQUARIUM 7- ANTI SLIME/ VELVET and waterlife's protozin treat velvet. I am unsure what you have in the states if you dont have those 2.

if you want to change the floss every month then thats fine, its up to you. if its just a matter of removing the filter motor then removing floss from the top tray then you wont disturb the bacteria. the gunk that gets kicked back into the tank on switch on wont do your fish any harm, if you think about it its already in the water just in the filter instead of the tank.

as for the salt on the velvet, i dont know mate. ive never had to deal with velvet so i know very little about it.

as for the post above, why would you treat a single fish, get it healthy then throw it back in a tank full of the nasties that made the fish ill in the first place. if you dont treat the tank the infection will become a recurring problem.


Well I can honestly say this is the first time I have been called mate, haha. But I see your reasoning with the gunk in the tank, but there isn't a possibility that actually ingesting it could cause a problem? Just curious.
 
nah fish try other fishes poop all the time. if they dont like it they spit it out. it happens to me when i clean my filter too and my fish always have a nibble just in case ive put a buffet in for them lol. its disgusting to watch for us but to a fish its a potential meal.

there is nothing wrong with your stocking that i can see unless your fish are all wild which would be unlikely. they need very different water perameters if they are wild, the rainbows and the neons in particular. being from different areas is less of an issue with tank bred fish so as long as your fish are tank bred and the lfs uses your local water source like you to keep them in and not treated water then there wont be a problem.
its worth asking your lfs if he uses RO water or the local tap water. it could be another stress factor if your not letting them acclimate over an hour or so to your water.
 
cichlid2006;2978768; said:
nah fish try other fishes poop all the time. if they dont like it they spit it out. it happens to me when i clean my filter too and my fish always have a nibble just in case ive put a buffet in for them lol. its disgusting to watch for us but to a fish its a potential meal.

there is nothing wrong with your stocking that i can see unless your fish are all wild which would be unlikely. they need very different water perameters if they are wild, the rainbows and the neons in particular. being from different areas is less of an issue with tank bred fish so as long as your fish are tank bred and the lfs uses your local water source like you to keep them in and not treated water then there wont be a problem.
its worth asking your lfs if he uses RO water or the local tap water. it could be another stress factor if your not letting them acclimate over an hour or so to your water.


Well then that eliminates my fear of hurting them with that crap that gets in there. I think the only fish of mine that may be wild are the round banded barbs... he says they are hard to come by right now... so I'm just guessing on that. He does use local tap water... we had a discussion about that when I was having a nasty Ph problem... I for the life of me could not get it to come up from 6.0 no matter how much water I changed. I got rid of all those fish (gave them away) and cleaned out the tank and started all new. I hated those cichlids anyway... they came with the tank.
 
well if they are kept in local tap water then its not a concern. most barbs are pretty versatile when it comes to water conditions.

i would just try all the tips you have had. the heat being a constant temp and a velvet treatment should be your first priority.
 
well everyone here is giving you great advice-i agree that a few degrees difference in temp. variation isnt going to hurt the fish-but i would try to raise them a few degrees.

i add salt to my tanks-i keep africans in one tank, and SA/CA mix in another, it helps to keep my africans regular along with a good diet. you may want to add aquarium salt, but not everyone does..

what are your nitrAte levels? you stated no ammonia, no nitrites-but just curious about nitrates.

id do the weekly waterchanges-and syphon your gravel well. it all sounds good so far- everyone is telling you good info..
 
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