true species

[JD7.62]

Thats how i got my pair.... one down in illinois that i paid 675 for an 18" male and a 12" male hystrix, and then a pet store in milwaulkee had my female in a 180

Yet more proof they are still out there at pet shops that dont know what they have. Hell Aquarium Adventures which is a large fish store/chain had a mature male leo for $600 back in January. It sold the day before I went to get it.

 

[Zoodiver]

My $.02 on this is that there are many more ras out there that people are unaware of.
I'm right on with Gary's (Aquatic Resource's) comment about Dallas World Aq. Holding area is HUGE, and not many know it's even here. While I was there, breeding was like no other set up I've ever seen. We needed specific staff just to prep food and feed pups. As for what George talked about at the Symposium, often times people in the zoo/aquarium world don't (or aren't allowed to) tell the full story. Personally, I'm not one for hiding stuff (hence the big Amazon thread I did awhile back).

I think the Elasmo Census could be an amazing tool, if used right. However, much to my sadness, people who report to it don't always have good count, correct species and by no means is it an all inclusive list. Remember not all keepers of rFW ays are ray lovers like us. Some who care for them don't even know what kind they have, anything about their hisory or how amazing they really are.


As for rewriting the books ...so to speak....we are at the edge of that right now. As we look further into DNA seperation of species, clearly defined lines will show up. I suggest until that point, we keep what we have as species "pure". Otherwise, all we will have are mutts, making it harder and harder to make sure the new reseach is valid.

 

[JD7.62]

My $.02 on this is that there are many more ras out there that people are unaware of.
I'm right on with Gary's (Aquatic Resource's) comment about Dallas World Aq. Holding area is HUGE, and not many know it's even here. While I was there, breeding was like no other set up I've ever seen. We needed specific staff just to prep food and feed pups. As for what George talked about at the Symposium, often times people in the zoo/aquarium world don't (or aren't allowed to) tell the full story. Personally, I'm not one for hiding stuff (hence the big Amazon thread I did awhile back).

I think the Elasmo Census could be an amazing tool, if used right. However, much to my sadness, people who report to it don't always have good count, correct species and by no means is it an all inclusive list. Remember not all keepers of rFW ays are ray lovers like us. Some who care for them don't even know what kind they have, anything about their hisory or how amazing they really are.


As for rewriting the books ...so to speak....we are at the edge of that right now. As we look further into DNA seperation of species, clearly defined lines will show up. I suggest until that point, we keep what we have as species "pure". Otherwise, all we will have are mutts, making it harder and harder to make sure the new reseach is valid.

ZD, what to these place like the Dallas aquarium do with their pups?

I know they dont sell them to the public and jsut about every aquarium Ive been to already has black rays. Do they just send to more and more zoos//aquariums?

 

[Zoodiver]

Most are used for other breeding and exchanging with other facilities. Demand is fairl high for quality known species. Getting animals from another zoo/aquaium is much better (safer) than buying a captive bred animal from some place that can't tell for sure what species the parents are or one that might not tell the truth for the sake of the sale.


One other side note, I think I read a comment somewhere in these pages about not being true 'hybrids' because the can breed. It's becoming more documented in aquatic species that hybrids are not sterile like most land animals.

 

[Zoodiver]

Most are used for other breeding and exchanging with other facilities. Demand is fairl high for quality known species. Getting animals from another zoo/aquaium is much better (safer) than buying a captive bred animal from some place that can't tell for sure what species the parents are or one that might not tell the truth for the sake of the sale.


One other side note, I think I read a comment somewhere in these pages about not being true 'hybrids' because the can breed. It's becoming more documented in aquatic species that hybrids are not sterile like most land animals.

 

[JD7.62]

I tend to view the world in a very capitalistic way. What gain do these institutions have in breeding these guys in large numbers? Trade for other animals they dont have? I just dont see a place investing the money to breed these animals (I am assuming they arent breeding for a rehabilitation purposes) and not have some sort of gain out of it.

 

[fugupuff]

One other side note, I think I read a comment somewhere in these pages about not being true 'hybrids' because the can breed. It's becoming more documented in aquatic species that hybrids are not sterile like most land animals.

you say documented, is this from the scientific community or you're just stating that the "hobby" and "fish industry" is proving this to be true? I think that science, as well as fish science is not as rigid as we think.

 

[Zoodiver]

I tend to view the world in a very capitalistic way. What gain do these institutions have in breeding these guys in large numbers? Trade for other animals they dont have? I just dont see a place investing the money to breed these animals (I am assuming they arent breeding for a rehabilitation purposes) and not have some sort of gain out of it.

When on a budget, having animals to trade is a huge asset for a facility. And really there isn't much spent $$ involved in the breeding process. With the size enclosures and the numbers of animals, it's only time invested in populaion management that is required. Having a supply of captive breed animals also has such a conservation advanage to using wild caught animals.

Along with that, the ability to do growth studies, population studies, and all sorts of other related research is amazing. For most, it's not all about income, it's about advancing the ability to keep these things as best we can.

 

[Zoodiver]

you say documented, is this from the scientific community or you're just stating that the "hobby" and "fish industry" is proving this to be true? I think that science, as well as fish science is not as rigid as we think.

I agree science is fluid... and should be. I feel scienific "laws" should be viewed more as guidelines. Within that changing forefront, we are seeing new things all the time that go against what the old thinking of science has told us.

 

[Gr8KarmaSF]

Old school bump!