Uaru F. Log

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OK. Tank is settling now. Ph is 5.6 but I expect that to drop some. Full story: I'll start by saying that because the panda tank has been so stable for so long, I moved my ph meter to my planted tank to better keep track of co2 levels. First mistake. Secondly, the tds of my ro water source (store bought) is typically 15-20 ppm which has been perfectly adequate to keep the tank stable, so I stopped checking it. Another mistake. The pandas have been acting funny today, and today was water change day so I moved the ph meter back to their tank mid water change just to check. Turns out the ph was far below the 5.0-5.2 that they have been stable at for the last 6 months. After ruling out nitric acid buildup, I check the tds of some ro water that had not yet been mixed with hydrochloric acid. Tds was 5. Much too low to balance out the HCL dose causing the ph drop. The first thing I did was dose enough seachem safe to cover 300 gallons. This should counteract any ammonia spike that would happen when I raised ph again. I then began slowly adding tap water to bring ph up again, about a gallon at a time. I took multiple ammonia readings,looking for the spike. Haven't seen it yet. Then added some ro, then tap, etc. Ammonia readings are still zero. The fish are very displeased with this entire event. Very dark grey. I'm not quite done filling the tank yet, but should be finished soon. I'm allowing about 30 minutes in between each water addition to make the process as slow as possible. A few interesting points:
1 my last water change was Monday. That has to be the water change that threw the tank off, but the fish didn't show any symptoms until this morning.
2 the plecos don't seem to give two you-know-whats about what is happening in the tank. The starlight pleco was out cleaning air tubing while the Phantom was cruising for scraps during the water change.
3 beneficial bacteria colonies are supposed to die off in low hardness, low ph environments due to Ammonia conversion to ammonium. The fact that I still have measurable nitrates, and no ammonia after raising ph well over 1 point says that I must have the ballsiest bacteria colony in all of fish keeping. Or conventional is incorrect, and the bacteria are much much more adaptable that I previously thought possible. This is perhaps the most interesting note to me. Curious what Oddball Oddball , duanes duanes , or RD. RD. have to say about it. I know you guys are way smarter than me on aquarium microbiology.
 
Whoa....haven't checked this thread for awhile......looks like I got a lot to catch up on :( How the hell did your PH fall below 4???? That's crazy.....
 
Beetlebug515 said:
Prazi will be what I use then. How much do you think it would cost to submit a fish for that sort of analysis? Can't be cheap.
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I've been following this thread with interest and wanted to chime in on necropsies. I don't know where you're located but here in Arkansas we have a sizable aquaculture industry and fish necropsies can be done for free by the Cooperative Extension Service. You might check with your local land grant college.
 
Ozarker said:
I've been following this thread with interest and wanted to chime in on necropsies. I don't know where you're located but here in Arkansas we have a sizable aquaculture industry and fish necropsies can be done for free by the Cooperative Extension Service. You might check with your local land grant college.
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Thanks for the tip!
 
Are you using pure ro? I thought they required some of the stuff RO pulls out, but I'm not sure of it all. Adding safe as you raised pH seems like a very sound move though. Glad to hear they guys toughed through it though, any improvement so far?
 
Beetlebug515 said:
OK. Tank is settling now. Ph is 5.6 but I expect that to drop some. Full story: I'll start by saying that because the panda tank has been so stable for so long, I moved my ph meter to my planted tank to better keep track of co2 levels. First mistake. Secondly, the tds of my ro water source (store bought) is typically 15-20 ppm which has been perfectly adequate to keep the tank stable, so I stopped checking it. Another mistake. The pandas have been acting funny today, and today was water change day so I moved the ph meter back to their tank mid water change just to check. Turns out the ph was far below the 5.0-5.2 that they have been stable at for the last 6 months. After ruling out nitric acid buildup, I check the tds of some ro water that had not yet been mixed with hydrochloric acid. Tds was 5. Much too low to balance out the HCL dose causing the ph drop. The first thing I did was dose enough seachem safe to cover 300 gallons. This should counteract any ammonia spike that would happen when I raised ph again. I then began slowly adding tap water to bring ph up again, about a gallon at a time. I took multiple ammonia readings,looking for the spike. Haven't seen it yet. Then added some ro, then tap, etc. Ammonia readings are still zero. The fish are very displeased with this entire event. Very dark grey. I'm not quite done filling the tank yet, but should be finished soon. I'm allowing about 30 minutes in between each water addition to make the process as slow as possible. A few interesting points:
1 my last water change was Monday. That has to be the water change that threw the tank off, but the fish didn't show any symptoms until this morning.
2 the plecos don't seem to give two you-know-whats about what is happening in the tank. The starlight pleco was out cleaning air tubing while the Phantom was cruising for scraps during the water change.
3 beneficial bacteria colonies are supposed to die off in low hardness, low ph environments due to Ammonia conversion to ammonium. The fact that I still have measurable nitrates, and no ammonia after raising ph well over 1 point says that I must have the ballsiest bacteria colony in all of fish keeping. Or conventional is incorrect, and the bacteria are much much more adaptable that I previously thought possible. This is perhaps the most interesting note to me. Curious what Oddball Oddball , duanes duanes , or RD. RD. have to say about it. I know you guys are way smarter than me on aquarium microbiology.
Click to expand...

If dosing with muriatic/HCL, you might consider using an acid demand test such as Taylor makes for swimming pool/spa pH monitoring and control. You first test the existing pH then titrate the acid demand reagent dropwise until the color changes to your desired pH point. Then, based on the number of drops added, calculate the ml/gallon of HCL to add to your system. Better than trial and error.

As was pointed out, handle HCL with respect.
 
Woefulrelic said:
Are you using pure ro? I thought they required some of the stuff RO pulls out, but I'm not sure of it all. Adding safe as you raised pH seems like a very sound move though. Glad to hear they guys toughed through it though, any improvement so far?
Click to expand...
Yes I've been using pure ro. Like I said, tds was always near 20 ppm. It was enough for the fish, and the stability of the tank. Then my ro source changed their membranes last week. Much improvement over the last couple of days. It's going to be water change day again with some experimenting with water chemistry.

Ozarker said:
If dosing with muriatic/HCL, you might consider using an acid demand test such as Taylor makes for swimming pool/spa pH monitoring and control. You first test the existing pH then titrate the acid demand reagent dropwise until the color changes to your desired pH point. Then, based on the number of drops added, calculate the ml/gallon of HCL to add to your system. Better than trial and error.

As was pointed out, handle HCL with respect.
Click to expand...
That's a neat idea. Over time, 2 ml per 30 gallons has done what I wanted it to. As far as treating it with respect: so am I not supposed to dissolve aluminum foil in it? It's super fun.
 
any recent pics ? i still have 4 of the 5 i got. 1 died about 2 months ago, 2 are thriving, 1 is doing ok and I appear to have 1 runt. I will try to get pics up over the next couple of days
 
Not at the moment. I'm away from home and Paige Paige (da wife) is running the show.
 
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