Under stocked vs over stocked...

[Miguel]

Who says Rtc says a big majority of catfish, says Pacus ( other poor souls of the hobby ).not even going into Arapaima etc....
They should not be sold. Period.

I do not know stateside, but in here hou a hard pressed to find a serious Lfs. I know them all and the argument " the more fish they take and the more die, the more they come back for more". And selling set ups telling people that it is allright to fill them with fish the same day....

When i protest, i get told, they want the tank and fish, and they want it now...it i do not sell, they'll go somewhere else immediately..

Sorry about the rant and the derail

 

[majorhavok]

This is a fantastic thread on overstocking considerations. Good examples, even better discussion. This should be a sticky.

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[petspoiler]

I just glanced thru the article on the effect of stress on fish. I vote for that being a Sticky (it isn't yet, Que no?), because it has concrete info which is always debated about emotionally, aside from rationality, in forum.

 

[Miguel]

Except it isn't the fishes fault at all. I agree that many fish should be a lot more difficult to obtain.


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Of course it isn't the fishes fault. It sthe forces of the market and misinformation fault.

It is, as said, Selling an rtc or a pima to a 15 year old who most of the time is not even obliged to know better and believes in the seller.

An rtc today, a shovwlnose and an oscar tomorrow, and there you are...

I still maintain, as often said, that there a ways to heavy stock ( to avoid the " over" word ), but it should not be done through ignorance. It can, and should only be done, by people who have a modicum of adequate knowledge.

 

[alexanian]

IMO overstocking of CERTAIN species of fish can be harmfull in the long run, while overstocking other is beneficial, like for example african cichlids or social, shoaling community species. Of course when I say overstocking I do not mean JDM type overstocking. Keeping an arowana in a 75g is obviously harmful for the health of the fish but saying that and 8" fish cannot live in a 55G for life is ridiculous. I see extremes in both overstocking and UNDERSTOCKING!
It all depends on the species, their max sizes and social behavior of each species when determening if the tank is overstocked.

 

[aldiaz33]

Neill, i think that there is not one person who finds this facility tank, or your cropped pix, as way of keeping fish. This is animal cruelty, period.

And this is not what I mean when I speak about jdm tanks and that i like watchimg them for the mastership that maintaining them represents.

I wish everyone thought this, but that's just not the case.

There are quite a few members of this site that have tanks that look similar to this one and some that make that aquaculture tank look like it's lightly stocked; these guys don't think it's animal cruelty...in fact, they think they are awesome.

For some of them, it's not their fault. They are addicted to the feeling they get when they purchase a new fish. I think we all enjoy the feeling of acquiring a new inhabitant, but for some it's such a strong impulse that it completely overides the reality that they are unable to properly care for the species they purchase.

Perhaps this is getting off topic but I think there are two groups of overstockers:

Group #1 enjoys keeping a heavily stocked tank and sets out with that goal in mind.

Group #2 can't help themselves, and impulsively buy fish to satisfy the feeling they get from acquiring a new species. As soon as the new fish is in the tank, they are in the classifieds looking for the next fish to buy. They are like junkies addicted to the endorphin rush.

 

[Miguel]

Alex, show me tanks like those Neill showed in his post In Mfk.

Those tanks have nothing to do with JDM tanks i remember and appreciate and that took Monster to the next level,in fishkeeping.

That is a mass of unmovable fish. Show me someone proid of such a tank, please.

As to your two groups, it is genial!

 

[RD.]

Neill, i think that there is not one person who finds this facility tank, or your cropped pix, as way of keeping fish. This is animal cruelty, period.

I think that you are sadly mistaken, my friend. Would you also have me believing that there are no 15 yr olds on MFK that own RTC, or Pacu?

 

[Drstrangelove]

Good posts. I had a definiton for over stocking, (but after reading these posts, it wasn't very good), so now I've changed it.

After thinking on it, I decided (for me) that my definition of overstocking is a tank in which animals are not given the attention and care that is considered appropriate for that type of animal due to there being too many fish in the tank.

This is the same 'general' definition that fits for cats (at home), dogs (at home or in a kennel), kids, students in a classroom, boy scouts on a camp trip, etc. There is no specific need to define 'care' which we already have done. It's a simple if subjective opinion of whether the fish is being cared for appropriately.

A stressed, underfed, ignored, cramped, or stunted fish is not being cared for apporpriately. One could also use reverse logic and ask a different question: would fish in the tank "do better" if there were fewer fish? If no, (or essentially no), then the tank is not over stocked.

 

[Miguel]

I think that you are sadly mistaken, my friend. Would you also have me believing that there are no 15 yr olds on MFK that own RTC, or Pacu?

Neill, i do not remember wver seeing such a tank proudly presented by its owner here in Mfk. I might be forgetfull, but am convinced of what i am saying.


As requested from Alex, show me that i am wrong. As said this is not the definition of JDM tank i understand and accwpt to defend.

Aa to kids with Pacus or Rtc, that is what i was syaing. There are, because the market sells if to them and therein lies, among other things, the befinninings of bad keeping habits.

Is my enlish so bad today, that no one gets what i intend to convey??
Of ourse the