Under stocked vs over stocked...

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Maybe cause it is ok lol. Just cause you don't like it doesent mean its bad. Only time it's bad if the fish can't turn around or if u look into tank and can't see background lol.
It's not unhealthy if done right just xtra filtration n water changes n the quality of water n better than some under stocked tanks. There are plenty of times during dry seasons were fish live packed together with super high ammonia levels. And fish hobbyist wouldent even let there water get like that
 
Maybe cause it is ok lol. Just cause you don't like it doesent mean its bad. Only time it's bad if the fish can't turn around or if u look into tank and can't see background lol.
It's not unhealthy if done right just xtra filtration n water changes n the quality of water n better than some under stocked tanks. There are plenty of times during dry seasons were fish live packed together with super high ammonia levels. And fish hobbyist wouldent even let there water get like that

ok, i'll agree that dry season has crowded areas. but it's a season not every day 365 days a year. it's a short season. i personally o
heavily overfilter and under stock and do wcs as if my tank were overstocked. i'm not saying my way is the only way, but it's good and my fish have grown 4 times the size of friends who have some of the same fish bought at the same time at the same size. so i guess their over stocked and over filtered tank is just as good??? the proof is in the pudding. i don't care what anyone on this forum says i don't agree that it's ok. flame on i have thick skin and i'm sticking to my guns firm on this issue.
 
I guess pointless is a subjective term, this thread is probably pointless to many people.

Stocking topics come up almost every day, most JDM discussions are neatly tucked away in their respective folders under non stocking titles.

Here's a recent "is this overstocked?" discussion from the CA/SA folder.

Is this overstocked or is it just me?


My friend has a 125 gallon tank. She wants to stock it with

2x jaguar cichlid
2x red festea
2x oscar
1x or 2x jack dempsey
She already has one oscar and one jack dempsey.
I'm trying to tell her that she should get rid of the jaguars and 1 festea or both jaguars and festeas and get some of the smaller parachromis species, but she is dead set on that stocklist. Am I overreacting or is that stocklist overstocked?


The responses that follow are classic, those with experience with the species in question, and various tank sizes required for long term success warning what the most likely result will be (as in, I wouldn't if I was you), those that have zero experience with large tanks and/or most/all of these species adding their 2 cents worth (get one of everything!), those that don't appear to give a rats azz one way or the other (let 'em do what they want!), and those that compare their overtocked tank with completely different, and mostly non aggressive species, with the list of killers that the OP has posted. (hey look, it works for me!)

While it may be pointless to argue, members of MFK should thank their lucky stars that some of the more experienced members still take time out of their daily schedule and attempt to help those that come here seeking help. Sometimes some people may not like the answer, or even the way that the answer is presented, but it's not like anyone here is getting paid for their input.



As far as natural behaviour, not much that we do as hobbyists would be considered the same as in nature, but that shouldn't mean that we attempt to force a round peg into a square hole, either. This hobby should be less about what can be done, and more about what should be done.

The more JDM ones tank becomes, the more it becomes like a commercial aquaculture facility, which is really all that JDM tanks were originally based on. With a decent sized flow-through system you can pack fish in like sardines in a can, or as the major stated a bunch of people standing in an elevator.

Like the tilapia crammed into the commercial system below.

tilapiafarm.jpg




If I cropped the photo, many might easily mistake this as a JDM style tank posted on MFK.



tilapia.jpg
 
Only time it's bad if the fish can't turn around or if u look into tank and can't see background lol. It's not unhealthy if done right just xtra filtration n water changes n the quality of water n better than some under stocked tanks.

That would be incorrect. Many fish simply do not fair well in crowded conditions, no matter how great the water quality may be. It's called STRESS, which in fish can have the same affect as it does on most other organisms, including humans. I have seen this take place within monster tanks (600+ gallons) that IMO were way over stocked, yet the water quality was always superb due to massive filtration & massive automated daily water changes. (less than 10 ppm NO3)

Stress - Its Role in Fish Disease

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa005

Note that one of the key biological stressors is "crowding".
 
ok, i'll agree that dry season has crowded areas. but it's a season not every day 365 days a year. it's a short season. i personally o
heavily overfilter and under stock and do wcs as if my tank were overstocked. i'm not saying my way is the only way, but it's good and my fish have grown 4 times the size of friends who have some of the same fish bought at the same time at the same size. so i guess their over stocked and over filtered tank is just as good??? the proof is in the pudding. i don't care what anyone on this forum says i don't agree that it's ok. flame on i have thick skin and i'm sticking to my guns firm on this issue.

Growth of fish has mainly due to nutrition. That's why u see alot of people get same fish from a vendor n others grow quicker. I under feed my fish. It is proven by the fat that builds up inside aquaruim fish that we overfeed. Especially predatory fish who goes days to weeks without a meal. But power feeding fish w nutritionally dense food like pellets will make them grow quicker even in crappy water conditions.
 
That would be incorrect. Many fish simply do not fair well in crowded conditions, no matter how great the water quality may be. It's called STRESS, which in fish can have the same affect as it does on most other organisms, including humans. I have seen this take place within monster tanks (600+ gallons) that IMO were way over stocked, yet the water quality was always superb due to massive filtration & massive automated daily water changes. (less than 10 ppm NO3)

Stress - Its Role in Fish Disease

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa005

Note that one of the key biological stressors is "crowding".

That's a great read I must say but crowding is just part of it. Others are way worse like the second one posted.
Biological stressors :

Population density - crowding
Other species of fish - aggression, territoriality, lateral swimming space requirements
Microorganisms - pathogenic and nonpathogenic
Macroorganisms - internal and external parasites

Other fishes aggression is way worse. Plus out side factors like people tapping glass or spooking fish.
I think in crowding they mean tanks like that tilipia farm pics
 
The growth (and overall health) of a fish can be heavily influenced by water quality.

Simple fact proven within commercial aquaculture circles for over 100 years.
 
The growth (and overall health) of a fish can be heavily influenced by water quality.

Simple fact proven within commercial aquaculture circles for over 100 years.

Water quality in a understocked n over stocked tank can be very similiar.
I do daily water changes on all my tanks. Why cause there are other things that just what our test kits test for. And it's way healthier for the fish plus over filter my tanks. Those jdm tanks whatever they are,are just crazy that's WAY over stocked. But when people ***** that a 55g is to small for a 8" fish for life I just lol at them
 
Water quality in a understocked n over stocked tank can be very similiar.

Correct, which was already clearly established in this discussion.
 
Comparing production of fish in commercial aquaculture and aquarium keeping is like comparing farm production of poultry with keeping a pet parrot.

The former is focused on maximizing production in the shortest time...while the latter (in theory at least) is focused on long-term care of the animals and enjoyment of the keeper.

Matt
 
MonsterFishKeepers.com