undergravel filter

[bitteraspects]

And this differs from any other system how? Unless you are cleaning you HOB, canisters or any other mech filter on a daily basis you have the EXACT same thing happening. Trapped detritus will result in ammonia being added to the water column no matter what it's location is, right?

actually, no. HOB are generally cleaned on a weekly basis, while UGF are never cleaned thoroughly. regardless of how well yo uthink its been cleaned, there is not way to thoroughly clean a UGF without removing it.
again, the explanation about the accumulating bio-load vs the actual bio-load of the occupants is all back there.

 

[Oddball]

Personally, I've never seen the problems described here in the systems I've had running UGFs. I seldom use them any longer since the principles in their use has advanced to the easier-to-use sponge and W/D filters. These make things easier where digging and burrowing species are maintained. However, I still use UGFs in smaller planted systems where space is restricted for the use of sponge or HOB filtration and there's no space for canister filters/plumbing.

 

[T1KARMANN]

under gravel filters as a thing of the past

they were great in the 80s but things have moved on

 

[Bderick67]

actually, no. HOB are generally cleaned on a weekly basis, while UGF are never cleaned thoroughly. regardless of how well yo uthink its been cleaned, there is not way to thoroughly clean a UGF without removing it.
again, the explanation about the accumulating bio-load vs the actual bio-load of the occupants is all back there.

Accumulating bio load vs the actual bio load Again trapped detritus is gonna rot no matter where it is located. the only difference is your perceived easy of maintenance. Your hard headed and will only side step the actual questions put forth so this useless. Hopefully anyone serious about running a ugf will take your BS with a grain of salt.

 

[bitteraspects]

Accumulating bio load vs the actual bio load Again trapped detritus is gonna rot no matter where it is located. the only difference is your perceived easy of maintenance. Your hard headed and will only side step the actual questions put forth so this useless. Hopefully anyone serious about running a ugf will take your BS with a grain of salt.

When you pose a question worth answering, I will be more than happy to entertain it. Unfortunately, as you seem to Think the amount of ammonia created over a weeks time is the same as that created over an indefinite period, in not sure there's much I could so for you either way.

Hopefully anyone "serious about using a UGF" will take a step out of 1981 and join the rest of us in the real world who understand that advancements in filtration over the years have rendered the UGF all but useless, and realize that there a other forms of filtration out there that are cheaper, of better quality, and much more efficient.

But hey, if you're all for the "earth is flat" technique, and it works for you, more power to you.

 

[tcarswell]

When you pose a question worth answering, I will be more than happy to entertain it. Unfortunately, as you seem to Think the amount of ammonia created over a weeks time is the same as that created over an indefinite period, in not sure there's much I could so for you either way.

Hopefully anyone "serious about using a UGF" will take a step out of 1981 and join the rest of us in the real world who understand that advancements in filtration over the years have rendered the UGF all but useless, and realize that there a other forms of filtration out there that are cheaper, of better quality, and much more efficient.

But hey, if you're all for the "earth is flat" technique, and it works for you, more power to you.

you crack me up sometimes kiddo. First off think about who your arguing these claims against.... (Respectfully) Oddball has a ton of experience keeping fish. And apparently using UGF systems effectively without the symptoms you noted.

Secondly you are yet to even fabricate a story about owning an UGF system yet so your claims are most certainly not (As of yet) based on any experience.

 

[Bderick67]

Are you really that stupid that you think ammonia accumulates. Nitrates yes, because there is nothing to consume the nitrates. Maybe more efficient types of filters yes, cheaper filters no. Because of the bonehead beliefs of many UG filters can easily picked up for free.

Again you are the type that reads alot and understands little. Regurgitating anything that you read before without even finding out how accurate the info is.

 

[bitteraspects]

bahahahahah. I guess reading the name in the quote was a little tougher for you than you thought it would be. U wasn't even talking to oddball. hahahah. speaking of cracking me up.

why would I need to "fabricate a story about using a UGF" when its pretty common knowledge that they're an archaic and outdated system that has been replaced by much better systems? (which was also recently states by your friend oddball)
hahhhaha. Get a clue.

 

[bitteraspects]

Are you really that stupid that you think ammonia accumulates. Nitrates yes, because there is nothing to consume the nitrates. Maybe more efficient types of filters yes, cheaper filters no. Because of the bonehead beliefs of many UG filters can easily picked up for free.

Again you are the type that reads alot and understands little. Regurgitating anything that you read before without even finding out how accurate the info is.

apparently you read little and understand even less.
ammonia does not accumulate? Bhahahha.
So one neon and a group of 100 goldfish create the same ammount of ammonia?
Lol. Riiiight.
I understand that you are talking about after the process of cycling, which only further proves that you missed the boat. I was never talking about ammonia not being processed by the bacteria and reading in the water column. I'm well aware of the process. I'm talking about the increased ammonia that results in larger colonies of bacteria that are needed to process it. Much the same as an overstocked tank.
Ill try to draw you a picture when I get home.
"no child left behind". That's my motto.

As far as cost goes. By that same rationale, you "could" get a hob of canister for free too, but that's not what was being discussed. Hell, by that reasoning, you could build a huge wet/dry "for free" if you happened to have the stuff lying around.

At new, retail value, a large sponge filter will cost you the same (or less) than a UGF set up. Not only is it as/more effective in the way of surface area and processing ammonia, but it comes with much easier maintenance and will not hinder your ability to vacuum your gravel clean.

 

[bitteraspects]

Personally, I've never seen the problems described here in the systems I've had running UGFs. I seldom use them any longer since the principles in their use has advanced to the easier-to-use sponge and W/D filters. These make things easier where digging and burrowing species are maintained. However, I still use UGFs in smaller planted systems where space is restricted for the use of sponge or HOB filtration and there's no space for canister filters/plumbing.

that I could see. In a "better than nothing" situation where you don't have the means to fabricate something, and don't have the space for a sponge/box filter. I've never come across a situation like this, but I can definitely see your point.