Use of Seachem Cupramine has toxic effects?

[FishEZ]

Has anyone had good results using Seachem's Cupramine? I have used it in the past but not with particularly good results. Recently I observed in my tank of Green Tiger Barbs that a couple of fish had what seem to be small little silvery colored bumps or extrusions to some of their scales which bulged out somewhat. It looked like what might be external parasites so decided to treat the tank with the only item that I had on hand, Seachem's Cupramine which specifically says is good for treatment of external parasites according to the instructions.

The dosage called for 2 drops per gallon for first 48 hours and then to add 2 more drops per gallon at the 48 hour mark and then wait 14 days. However, the instructions say to use 1/2 the amount for fresh water. So I used 1 drop per gallon. No other medications (nor salt) was used. Fish were treated with Hikari's IchX during the week before, but this did not clear up the problem. I had my doubts that IchX would work since it was definitely not Ich. Water was completely changed before start of Cupramine. IchX and Cupramine were not used at the same time.

Within 48 hours of the start of Cupramine treatment, all but one fish was dead. I never did add the 2nd drop / gallon since there's no point in treating a tank in which all the fish have died. Has anyone experienced the same toxic effects of Seachem Cupramine? Any comments? I would rather suspect that delicate fish might be more vulnerable, but hey, these are tiger barbs! Here are the particulars:

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Fish: 11 adult size green tiger barbs, no other fish in the tank.
Temperature maintained about 70-74 degrees (no heater since the room stays constant within that range.)
Tank is 20G tall.
The tank is bare except for a small bunch of Java Moss.
Filtration is a cycled sponge filter.
No carbon in the tank.
Water changes prior to treatment have been one third water change, 3 times per week up until start of treatment.
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[kno4te]

If u dosed a water conditioner prior to use of the copper then it can be reduced to a more toxic form. Before treating the barbs would make sure u have an idea of what it is ur trying to treat. Would watch the fish for now. Don’t add anymore med.

 

[RD.]

If u dosed a water conditioner prior to use of the copper then it can be reduced to a more toxic form.

Bingo.

I have used Cupramine a few times over the years with no issues. But you have to be careful, especially when changing water. I change water at least 24 hrs before adding Cupramine to the tank, and when treatement is complete I use copper absorbing resins to remove copper residuals. (Cuprisorb) https://www.seachem.com/cuprisorb.php

From a Seachem rep ....

Q: I've been dosing with Cupramine™ and then I added Product X and everything died. What happened?

A: If Product X is a reducing agent such as ParaGuard™ (or other aldehyde based medications), or if you overdose with a dechlorinator, such as Prime® then the Cu+2 will be reduced to Cu+. Cu+ is 10 times more toxic than Cu+2.

 

[FishEZ]

A: If Product X is a reducing agent such as ParaGuard™ (or other aldehyde based medications), or if you overdose with a dechlorinator, such as Prime® then the Cu+2 will be reduced to Cu+. Cu+ is 10 times more toxic than Cu+2.

Thank you both for your reply. I suspect that when I changed the water out, I made a 90% water change. This was to ensure that there was no IchX in the water before treating with the Cupramine. I spsect that when I replaced the water, that the water I used was treated with Prime. I can't recall exactly but that's the likelihood. So if that's correct and I didn't wait a period of at least 24 hours, it could be that the added Cupramine was mixed with the Prime. I learned a valuable lesson here.

RD. Can I clean out the tank completely, replacing all of the water and rinsing down the tank to eradicate the Cupramine instead of adding the Cuprisorb?

 

[kno4te]

Would add some carbon in ur filter to take out the copper.

 

[RD.]

Copper can remain in substrate, ornaments, rocks, wood, etc. I have always used Cuprisorb at the end when using Cupramine, but a quality carbon will work as well. In the past when I used Mardel Coppersafe I typically just used water changes and carbon.