UV...who needs it?

[Ophiuchus]

Yeah, I could believe most herps can do without, but now I'm talking mainly about those that practically live in the sun most of day; i.e. green iguanas, anoles, bearded dragons, chameleons, uromastyx, etc.

Anyone could come on here and say, "My iguana survived __ yrs without UVB and it was fine." In my book, when only one or two people say that, I'm thinking to myself, "Must be a really lucky/tough iguana." Now if someone can give me evidence that iguana breeders are raising thousands of iguanas without UVB and are having no issues, then I'll be a little more open-minded.

Again, I'm not saying that you guys (Kioka, and Varanio) are wrong; I'm just asking for some proof here. Until then, I'm with JD, and I'm going to continue to tell my customers at the LRS that they need UV lights for their iguana (or beardie, or chameleon, etc).

 

[Kioka]

I wouldn't suggest my method with costumers anyway, since if they don't give enough D3, they might not give enough for the reptile.

 

[varanio]

I wouldnt suggest it to newbies, Im an experienced keeper I have no experience with iguanas other than cyclura. I have friends up north that keep them in their winter enclosures without UV, again you twisted my words I never said they didnt ever need it, I said it wasnt required to keep them, IE for example iguanas? Noone breeds them indoors, theyre all farm bred in El Salvador and South America outdoors in Giant aviaries. Noone breeds them in the states for the pet trade except the select few that have albinos. My cyclura are out year round, meaning they are exposed to UV when the want to be. And then go in their hides when enough is enough.

My beardies dont need it and I havent had problems with them in 10 + years I have bred them in both small and large scale. Enclosed are pics of beardies that have been raised since hatchlings w/o UV, from what I see they look pretty damn healthy and colorful. Ophi I would agree with you that the lizards you mentioned do benefit from it, but it isnt a necessity for pure survival of the animal. I can see how iguanas might need it, anoles etc... but uros beardies and collards are all animals that are fossorial, meaning the spend alot of time underground as well and their colors are not as complicated in terms of keeping pigmentation of a certain color to blend into greenerie/ arboreal semi arboreal life. So while im not 100% disagreeing with you, I am also not 100% agreeing with you either.

 

[varanio]

Ophi proof is in the results itself, its not what someone writes based on only weeks of observation out in the field. Most research projects last only long enough to gather certain data to write a book. Then when the funding is done meaning the finances are depleted, these scientists must pack up and leave with only a few weeks/months of real concrete data. These researches dont spend years and years with the same animals, watching them produce, watching them fulfill life events, they only get what they see during the 6 give or take hrs reptiles expose themselves out in the open.

Most people think that reptiles are very outgoing and very bold creatures that just sit on a rock in the middle of the desert forest whatever basking all day long, with no worries at all. In fact they are very wary and with just a glimpse of movement they are gone. This is why we hardly know anything about their way of life in the wild. They wont sit there and pose for you to take pictures and jot down data, as soon as they catch a glimpse of you they are gone. This is why most reptile research is done on dead animals, their droppings and just the overall data recieved from the surrounding habitat that supports them. The critical complex behaviors that they have within them instilled and passed from generation to generation are all exhibited in captivity, where they have grown accustomed to you and feel no danger, but for some reason people seem to discredit that as research. Its really a shame..........

 

[davo]

There are Phelsuma and Lygodactylus and Gonatodes geckos that are diurnal. Also there is M. s. spilota that there are question marks on whether they need UV.

 

[Ophiuchus]

Point taken. I understand the difference of needing something to survive and not needing it. Therein lies the difference of keeping something alive and keeping it healthy, I supppose.

Iguanas were a bad example; I know they're bred on farms out of the country. But whatever, I guess I'll have to research the effects on the others myself.

 

[varanio]

Youll have to get specimens for yourself, then have a group in UV light one without, then you would have to keep the subjects long enough for them to reach maturity breed and live a full life, as thats how it would be measured. Or you can do a long term vs short term effect, much to Jessicas's comparison, but how much truth would that hold, just a weekend? Just by reading books and then coming on here and citing things that may be outdated or have already been noted before wont really be considered research, just reiteration. So good luck on your quest to research this subject, and I hope you have the resources to keep the experiment going long enough to have some real concrete evidence of whether it is a necessity rather than a benefit.

 

[Jessica Dring]

Youll have to get specimens for yourself, then have a group in UV light one without, then you would have to keep the subjects long enough for them to reach maturity breed and live a full life, as thats how it would be measured. Or you can do a long term vs short term effect, much to Jessicas's comparison, but how much truth would that hold, just a weekend? Just by reading books and then coming on here and citing things that may be outdated or have already been noted before wont really be considered research, just reiteration. So good luck on your quest to research this subject, and I hope you have the resources to keep the experiment going long enough to have some real concrete evidence of whether it is a necessity rather than a benefit.

Just a weekend? 3 days here and there, 5 days another here and there, oh yeah and the time the light broke (accident happened in the viv it was NOT an old bulb) and it took me 8 days to find the replacement I needed?

I saw results for myself.

Varanio, respect to you for being a mod and all, but I HAVE to disagree here. Unless you have proof iggies are healthy without UV, you can't really begin to question (or mere suggest what I know about my iggy doesnt have significant proof) when I know my animal and notice changes in it. If you can find significant proof iggies dont need (or rather, benefit from) UV I will admit my ignorance.

 

[evilxyardxgnome]

I just read in the latest Reptiles magazine that the the Fan-Footed Geckos also benefit from UV light.

 

[varanio]

Just a weekend? 3 days here and there, 5 days another here and there, oh yeah and the time the light broke (accident happened in the viv it was NOT an old bulb) and it took me 8 days to find the replacement I needed?

I saw results for myself.

Varanio, respect to you for being a mod and all, but I HAVE to disagree here. Unless you have proof iggies are healthy without UV, you can't really begin to question (or mere suggest what I know about my iggy doesnt have significant proof) when I know my animal and notice changes in it. If you can find significant proof iggies dont need (or rather, benefit from) UV I will admit my ignorance.

Jess I used your example as a grounds on where to start with, your animal is just one animal, and thats it. A few days here or there and yes your animal will turn into another color, etc etc... based on something it is use to missing in its everyday life. What I am after and what ophi I think is after is an answer as to what happens LONG TERM no just 4 days here and 9 days there without it. So, if you have any long term results to present to us feel free, or if you want to provide and volunteer your iguana as a test subject then so be it, but if you want to butt in just because your name was mentioned on here as a mere example and not contribute to the conversation because you felt you were attacked then this is the wrong place to do it. I will not allow this conversation about an important subject to make a U turn into negative lane like the ones you and loco have participated in the last few days.

Thanks