W13's Creature Feature

thebiggerthebetter

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Thanks for that. I didn't know about the blackness on the bottom, or yellowness, or that the personality and activity can be the pointers.

What I have read and heard rather consistently is that the RTC sexing is unknown from external features.

I have been raising 9 RTCs in one of the 4500 gal for 2-3 years now and I noted that there are two distinct groups.

One kind has a broader and flatter top of the head, hence bigger mouth, and grows faster or maybe just grows larger, and these are the most active at hand-feeding times. There are 3 of them and these are all currently 3'-3.5'.

The other kind has a relatively narrower and more sloping top of the head and they are all smaller than the other kind, currently at 2.5'-3', less active at feeding. There are 6 of those.

I see no consistency in the coloration between the two groups, of the top or of the bottom, or in the amount of the redness.

If I go by what you said, the first group then must be the females and the second are the males.

I thought the opposite because fishermen state that in general male catfish have a broader head and a female would tend to have a larger tummy girth. People seem to state that about the North American fish they catch, like channel, blue, and flathead. IDK about bullheads.

You are a fisherman. You should know.

I vaguely recall reading that this rule may be general and apply to other catfish and other continents. That the females have a larger girth is understandable as they need to house larger reproductive organs and the eggs take up a lot more space than the male's milt. But the head is what's intriguing to me. If males have a bigger head and bigger mouth, is it for display, intimidation, fighting? Kind of like among some hooved animals the males have horns while females horns are reduced or absent.
 

wednesday13

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thebiggerthebetter thebiggerthebetter ,

Did a bit of reading lastnight about NA cats and came across some info that i believe relates. I would compare redtails to our native flathead catfish. As ur saying, fishermen state male cats usually have a bigger head. I think its a bit of a mis understanding tho in certain cases. Are the males heads really bigger? or does it just appear that way do to the rest of their slim body porportions. Another trait for males is that they are longer and more slender. This 2nd trait directly relates to the head size appearing larger even tho it may not be. The statement that "clicked" for me was one that said " a female flatheads body is as wide or wider then their head." They often appear shorter or stubbier than males and again i believe this is just somewhat of an optical illusion. Reading the info would make u think males are larger in general but to me the larger fish is the one with more bulk/body mass. In conclusion, im glad u sparked some good points on deciphering gender and after learning more about flatheads for comparison, i still believe my redtail to be female. Broad head equal to the width of the body. Shorter/stubby appearance due to the girth/growth....not always in length, but sheer bulk to hold eggs. Seems theres conflicting info on which gender grows faster for NA cats but i do believe the head to body ratio can be a good way to tell them apart. Heres a cple pics of flathead males and females for comparison.

1st pic 2 males
Screenshot_20180822-015305.png Screenshot_20180822-015257.png
2nd pic female...



Reading physical traits can be confusing, but pics make it pretty clear. From reading only it makes you think a females head is smaller....but in fact it just appears that way due to whats behind it. IMO the males are much smaller even tho they may appear bigger with a "larger head" and slender body. This is actually what i was referring too in my last post/observations. Makes much more sense now with pics and IMO a pretty close comparison species.
 

wednesday13

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20180822_110332.jpg
Is the males head actually bigger.... or does it just appear that way do to the other body porportions? My sketch is not 100% accurate, sure... but u get what im sayin hopefully lol...
 

thebiggerthebetter

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Yeah, I agree it is confusing. Because it's just laymen talking not scientists they fail to make a clean unambiguous statement.

-- Bigger in absolute terms?
-- Bigger in circumference, length, or breadth or all of the above?
-- Bigger as in the head circumference or breadth divided by the total body length?
-- Bigger as in the ratio of head circumference or breadth to body circumference or breadth (say at the base of the dorsal fin, front or back)?

This requires precise and diligent measurements of many specimen (for statistical treatment) of the kind published in taxonomic fish description papers.

Cool sketch but I already knew you are a skillful artist.

The photos you provided I appreciate but they are not as clean as you make them out to be... which I find unfortunate... as the alleged female is not being hung freely and vertically as the male but may have and likely does have some support from the bottom, making the tummy bulge out and look bigger than it would otherwise.
 
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