Want input from the planted tank gurus

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
fshfanatic;1487879; said:
I keep a 29 gallon heavily planted tank with pressurized co2.

If you want a great place to get your plants keep try http://www.plantedtank.net they have a swap and shop forum just for buying selling and trading plants. The prices cant be beat. That is where I get mine.

Yeah they seem to have some nice looking photos of well planted tanks, but I don't see the selling, trading, swapping area/link maybe when I have more time to search the site over. But for anyone who isn't in the GREAT USA I'll post a producer/wholesaler/importer/exporter that has some stunning plants @ fare to good pricing. I just don't have that info in this computer so I'll post it later. The reason I say for anyone outside the GREAT USA is because they cannot ship to the usa because of some stupid material they grow there plants in disagrees with the Dumbasses a the US FDA or something like that.:popcorn:
 
WyldFya;1487510; said:
The fixture would be good, I need to find out what type of bulbs it has. You could replace the bulbs you have with the Life glo 2 bulbs, which will enhance the growth of the plants. The life glo 2 bulbs will be more than sufficient to light you tank for viewing.

Question why do you keep pushing these tubes over any other tubes or blubs?, what makes them so great in your opion?

TheFanatic;1487868; said:
On a side note, you need to be buying as much equipment from internet sellers and not from a box store. The stuff on the internet is half the price of the stuff in the store. It sounds like you spent a ton that tank when you could've gotten it much cheaper...

This is probably true in some cases with some items, but certainly not the best way too go all the time. And especially not on live stock, and yes on plants orders in some cases. I like see first hand what it is I'm getting, plus in some cases the shipping fees make me wanna just go out and purchase it at the LPS. Take for instance my 180g tank, I did a search online for it and the cheapest I found it for was $3,000 at a well know internet company which includes shipping. There offer includes simular filters, heater, a cheapo pressed sawdust and glue stand, and lighting strips and glass canopy. Total cost here would have been $3300 plus there would have been taxes to pay here.

My 180g came with a fullhood that held 4~36" tubes, Iron stand, pre-drilled, with plumbing fixtures, water pump and Ocean Clear canister filter. I found this setup at a LPS that was throwing in the towel. They said they would except $1000 cash and would deliver it too. I looked at purchasing 350 lbs of River Rock Gravel for my like new aquarium, The same place offered to order 350 lbs of Florite for $300 cash. So total setup cost here was $1300 cash deal.

It's liike items on ebay they look like great prices but after you factor in the shipping and handling fees and insurance your savings aren't really worth that much especially on those once and awhile returns where you gotta pay for the return shipping and all to get a refund or another item, then doing things online starts to suck big time. :WHOA:
 
First off I'm newer to plants, so I am no Guru and therefor might be slightly off. If you are serious about aquascapeing and have the money to spend a lot of people recommend CO2. On that note I'd get a larger CO2 tank with adapters and such so you could run one CO2 tank into multiple tanks, or a PH regulator? but I'm not sure if both would work on the same system. But things need to be balanced. CO2 is required for a high light tank. 4wpg and over, but also requires regular fert doses. CO2 injection is not necessary to grow plants, might help. But remember to keep the balance between light intensity, ferts, and CO2 or it's supposed to be a recipe for algae.
You mentioned that your lights are on 12 hours a day. I'd get a timer, dose not have to be a "fish" one. Can be about $6 look for one that accepts 3 pronged plugs if that's what you lights use. Try cutting down the photo period, 8-10 hours not more than 12. Where did I read that higher plants can use light for that amount of time then kinda shut down but algae can use light as long as it can get it. So having your lights on longer dose not benefit your plants, just the algae. Plants need it with in a certain spectrum and leaving the lights on longer dose not make up for improper spectrum.
If I remember correctly UV sterilizers help with green water. Your algae seems to be on the glass.
Lighting system question depends on what way you decide to go. If you opted for CO2, you might want more light. But a new fixture IDK, some people add another strip, depends on your lid or hood and what your wanting to do.

Tequila - Sounds like you got lucky and your timing was perfect. Wow they were closing and still ordered stuff for you!
Some things are worth getting online, after factoring in shipping, and what you can get locally. By then is it worth the time looking? Where I'm at there's a petsmart and one decent local shop where the owners are rude, quality is poor, most stuff is overpriced, return policy is bad, care on animals is substandard, trading in is a hassle, get offered up to $1 pretty much for anything, credit only, and very limited inconveinent hours.
 
Tequila;1488459; said:
Question why do you keep pushing these tubes over any other tubes or blubs?, what makes them so great in your opion?



This is probably true in some cases with some items, but certainly not the best way too go all the time. And especially not on live stock, and yes on plants orders in some cases. I like see first hand what it is I'm getting, plus in some cases the shipping fees make me wanna just go out and purchase it at the LPS. Take for instance my 180g tank, I did a search online for it and the cheapest I found it for was $3,000 at a well know internet company which includes shipping. There offer includes simular filters, heater, a cheapo pressed sawdust and glue stand, and lighting strips and glass canopy. Total cost here would have been $3300 plus there would have been taxes to pay here.

My 180g came with a fullhood that held 4~36" tubes, Iron stand, pre-drilled, with plumbing fixtures, water pump and Ocean Clear canister filter. I found this setup at a LPS that was throwing in the towel. They said they would except $1000 cash and would deliver it too. I looked at purchasing 350 lbs of River Rock Gravel for my like new aquarium, The same place offered to order 350 lbs of Florite for $300 cash. So total setup cost here was $1300 cash deal.

It's liike items on ebay they look like great prices but after you factor in the shipping and handling fees and insurance your savings aren't really worth that much especially on those once and awhile returns where you gotta pay for the return shipping and all to get a refund or another item, then doing things online starts to suck big time. :WHOA:


Well, one thing that is great about ordering online, most of the time there is no tax and that can cover shipping costs quite a bit or completely.

I don't recommend buying things like the tank, gravel or rock work online. Too heavy to ship. I have not ordered any fish online but a buddy of mine did twice. Got some amazing F-1 Africans that have the most incredible color. The third time he ordered the plane got grounded in an ice storm and everything died. He got his money back but not the fish.

I can see ordering plants. The plant selection is St. Louis is pretty bad except 1 store that uses C02. If you don't use C02 at home these plants don't seem to do well. And they are ridiculously overpriced....

I highly recommend ordering filters, heaters, chemicals, pumps, airstones, dry food, lights, bulbs (SO MUCH CHEAPER), filter media, and the like online. And Petsmart price matches their website in the store. Take advantage of that. It won't last long...
 
Tequila;1488459; said:
Question why do you keep pushing these tubes over any other tubes or blubs?, what makes them so great in your opion?

Cuz he gets a profit every time he says their name :footinmou

I had 2 t5 bulbs before my t5ho came in the mail (thank u) An they are more crisp and clear then the t5 at that K. and running a lot nicer on the bill.
 
Because the HO T5 lights use less energy, put out more light, and grow plants 10 times better than any other lighting form other than MH or LED.
 
Some have advised against excess surface agitation in planted tanks becuase it drives of CO2 in gas exchange. Limit amount of aeration and try to direct cannister filter return below surface.
 
Firstly, I now know it's way cheaper to buy online. Infact i bought all the aquarium stuff online for a tank i'm giving my grandma, and got the tank on craigslist.

As for the questions posed earlier.. I'm sure it'll help anyone evauate my situation.

Questions I have for you:
How long has this tank been setup with fish in it?

-6 Weeks, started with media from a friend, and some of his gravel.


Does it have a U.G.f. (Undergravel Filter)? or what type of filter does it have?

- No undergrave filter, Fluval 304 canister filter.
How long do you leave your lights on for, each day?
-Currently 12 Hours. It's also my main lighting for viewing my fish. Noon till midnight. I could push it back to 2pm till midnight.

Are your lights on a timer, or do you just turn them on and off everyday yourself when you remember.

-Yes they are on a timer. I today bought a power strip timmer, with 2 plugs for day, 2 for night. Will be giving my old 1 plug timer to my grandmother.


How often do you feed your fish? and how much? What do you use as a indication that your fish have had enough food? and what are you feeding them? (ie: flakes, live worms etc)

- I feed them before bed each night. I feed mostly with flakes, and about 4 shrimp pellats. I think I might be underfeeding them. However all I hear about is people over feeding them. I feed enough flakes, that they consume in 3 minutes. I've heard 2.5 mins, 5 mins etc. I just use 3 minutes. I am worried about fish that don't seem to get flakes though. Mid level stuff, mostly my glass cats, they seem to eat, what isnt taken from the top. But not much makes it down there, if i don't over feed them...


When you say that you want to take up Aquascaping as a hobby, you mean that you enjoy the fish part of aquascaping of the plants?

- I am interested in the plants, and the fish. I kind of look at it, as a peice of art. Once you design and execute it. You have virtually a moving piece of artwork. It's like looking into a picture frame that moves. The AGA competition stuff is really breathtaking.
What types of plants are you using (common names are fine, I sux at Latin).
- As for plants, it seems I have a little bit of everythign in my community tank. Ludwig, sword fin fern? some other ferns, some pine tree lookin one, etc, I basically have everythign that my LFS in my area offer. Except java moss, didnt like the look of that. What I really want to start growing is either dwarf hair grass, or another type of moss, tha tI can use as a foreground cover.

And whats the overall chemistry of your tank? (ie: PH, Hardness, Nitrite, ammonia and most importantly Nitrate levels!)

Ok, for testing my levels, I used a tetra 5in1 easy strip, and a ph test kit by tetra i believe.

PH on ph test kit, 7.0 to 7.2
PH on 5in1 =6.8 or so.

Nitrate 0ppm
Nitrite 0-1ppm The color is very feignt might be 1.
Hardness Very soft, less than 50
KH is 75ppm or so.

Also while at work today, I bought a aqua-life2 bulb. The light is very nice, actually brightened up my tank.
 
CoryWM;1489389; said:
Firstly, I now know it's way cheaper to buy online. Infact i bought all the aquarium stuff online for a tank i'm giving my grandma, and got the tank on craigslist.

As for the questions posed earlier.. I'm sure it'll help anyone evauate my situation.

Questions I have for you:
How long has this tank been setup with fish in it?

-6 Weeks, started with media from a friend, and some of his gravel.


Does it have a U.G.f. (Undergravel Filter)? or what type of filter does it have?

- No undergrave filter, Fluval 304 canister filter. How long do you leave your lights on for, each day?
-Currently 12 Hours. It's also my main lighting for viewing my fish. Noon till midnight. I could push it back to 2pm till midnight.

Are your lights on a timer, or do you just turn them on and off everyday yourself when you remember.

-Yes they are on a timer. I today bought a power strip timmer, with 2 plugs for day, 2 for night. Will be giving my old 1 plug timer to my grandmother.

How often do you feed your fish? and how much? What do you use as a indication that your fish have had enough food? and what are you feeding them? (ie: flakes, live worms etc)

- I feed them before bed each night. I feed mostly with flakes, and about 4 shrimp pellats. I think I might be underfeeding them. However all I hear about is people over feeding them. I feed enough flakes, that they consume in 3 minutes. I've heard 2.5 mins, 5 mins etc. I just use 3 minutes. I am worried about fish that don't seem to get flakes though. Mid level stuff, mostly my glass cats, they seem to eat, what isnt taken from the top. But not much makes it down there, if i don't over feed them...


When you say that you want to take up Aquascaping as a hobby, you mean that you enjoy the fish part of aquascaping of the plants?

- I am interested in the plants, and the fish. I kind of look at it, as a peice of art. Once you design and execute it. You have virtually a moving piece of artwork. It's like looking into a picture frame that moves. The AGA competition stuff is really breathtaking. What types of plants are you using (common names are fine, I sux at Latin).
- As for plants, it seems I have a little bit of everythign in my community tank. Ludwig, sword fin fern? some other ferns, some pine tree lookin one, etc, I basically have everythign that my LFS in my area offer. Except java moss, didnt like the look of that. What I really want to start growing is either dwarf hair grass, or another type of moss, tha tI can use as a foreground cover.

And whats the overall chemistry of your tank? (ie: PH, Hardness, Nitrite, ammonia and most importantly Nitrate levels!)

Ok, for testing my levels, I used a tetra 5in1 easy strip, and a ph test kit by tetra i believe.

PH on ph test kit, 7.0 to 7.2
PH on 5in1 =6.8 or so.

Nitrate 0ppm
Nitrite 0-1ppm The color is very feignt might be 1.
Hardness Very soft, less than 50
KH is 75ppm or so.

Also while at work today, I bought a aqua-life2 bulb. The light is very nice, actually brightened up my tank.

Thanks for answering my questions. I have been in the Pet trade for more
than 25 yrs, not always with fish, but I have always had an
aquarium with fish since I started.

As I stated I have a 180g tank that afforded me great
height, though not the best depth I would later want. I
knew that I wanted a planted tank and that the occupence
wasn't a main concern. So when I found this tank I bought
not gravel but 350lbs of Florite. Florite is Excellent for
plant growth as a subtrate it contains many of the trace
elements & Iron needed for healthy plants. 350lbs gave me
a bed of roughly 4~5 inches deep across the entire bottom.

I'm going to tell you what I have done with my 180g
and not what I have read or someone else told me too try.
Everyone has an opion, a way that they believe works better
or best. I speak from my own experence and I have been
in the trade off & on for over 25yrs. I still have some wholesale
connections. I spent $175 in total on my first planting @ a
wholesaler in Florida, $175 wholesale in plants is
roughly $700 retail @ any desent LPS,... trust me on this! So I
had quite a bit of plants stocked in my tank. Not just 1 or 2 pieces
each but in some cases like with Corkscrews I had 24 - 8" tall pieces
to work with. Upon my second planting I purchased more exotic plants
like Madagasgar Lace plants, bought them as just bulbs and saved, also purchased 6-30" Amazon Swords with bunches of buds from shoots. Collected from the lakes out and around my home in Florida Brazilian Swords,
Moneywort, cabomba and hydrillia, not too for get water lettuce, and anything else I could pull up without becoming gator bait.

I changed the basic full flo hood over to a VHO 72" 1~Violet
and 1~pure white tube, using 2 tubes for a
total 160watts per tube for 320watts and placed them on
a timer. I also added another timer for my aeration system.
When the lights & C02 system went off, my aeration system
came on an hour later. I do not use pressurized C02 tanks,
but you may prefer too, I use CARBO-PLUS System, it is the
overall least expensive and troublesome system for me to use. I
don't have too worry about pressured tanks and any leaks,
that may cause "my case headaches", I just
change the cartrige and replace the holder and I'm good to go.

And I use an U.G.F. that I contructed myself, running
through pre-drilled holes in the floor of the tank, water
dropped through too an OceanClear canister containing
Chemi-Pure and Bio-balls as media and pumped back to the
tank @ a rate of 1017GPH or 5 times the valume of the tank
per hour. This is the only filteration I used, basically
I get 2 for 1 filteration. (All nutrients in all forms,
poop and added fertilizers go straight through the subtrate
where the plant roots are). I have seen in some plants
grow at a rate on 6 inches per day. (Moneywort, cabomba and
hydrillia)

Note that Java Fern and Java Moss are all
very hearty plants but are also very slow growers unless
you use C02 and have a good amount of nutrients in the water,
also Moss Balls will grow slower than dirt unless you use
C02 and a ton of light. You can grow most plants using C02
and 10-12 hour photo periods, Seachem makes very good
fertilizers and trace elements for plants.

Remember the more plants you have the more minirals and nutrients
you need for them. - NOTE the statement about plants not using photo-periods longer than 12 hours, is nonsense, just ask those people that grow "Pot".

Now on to your Algae problem, this is why I asked about your
Nitrate levels, but I should have also asked you about the
phosphate levels, either your Nitrate and or phosphate levels are
high this is why you are having troubles with algae. Regardless
of what others tell you, sheesh don't take my word for it look
it up, invest in a good book on Aquascaping & plants. Look it up,
without Nitrates and Phosphates algae doesn't exist (well it exists, just like Ich pronouned Ick, but almost at doorment levels. Algae
is a plant, but more of a plant parasite, others will have you
believe that it grows because theres too large of a photo period a.k.a
too much light, if this was true why then does Algae grow where
there is little to NO light? Lower your phosphate and nitrate
levels and your algae DIES end of story (becomes doorment again) Main cause of Algae, over feeding, which leads too many nutrients

for the other plants and the system to handle. So algae is then able to feed
and grow. (Ever clean the out the tank to a toilet?, cleaned my just a
few days ago after changing out some parts, thick growth of
blackish blue ALGAE growing in there across the bottom,
the water changes constantly in there but theres NO light at all, since the last time I had to do this was 18 plus months ago, but yet theres Algae,
things that make you go hmmmmmmm). Algae and light, the only reason algae requires light is too grow faster and green! (poor way too put it,but you get what I mean)

This post is just going on and on. Just remember Aquascaping is an Art, and as such there are delicate balances that must be maintained. When to clip the plants, what does yellowing mean, what does brown spots mean, when is the tank growth too thick, how and when too use red, reddish, reddish-purple, vivid green, dark green, brown green, yellowish etc coloration in
plants and how to get them all to work together. Some plants
you gotta force to grow where you want them too grow otherwise
they don't look as nice as if you force them by way of tying
them down, anchoring so they go where you want them to go and
do what you want.

I wish you the best of luck with your aquascaping and your tank, also remember some pleco's when faced with no algae too eat will feed on your $10~$20 plants, then what should you do? Good Aquascaping isn't easy, and ain't cheap either it's a true Art form, like a rock garden.

If you feel I didn't answer a question well enough just re-ask it, or if you have any more questions please feel free to ask me I will tell you what I know and have tried and that works for me.
 
Tequila;1490164;1490164 said:
Thanks for answering my questions. I have been in the Pet trade for more
than 25 yrs, not always with fish, but I have always had an
aquarium with fish since I started.

As I stated I have a 180g tank that afforded me great
height, though not the best depth I would later want. I
knew that I wanted a planted tank and that the occupence
wasn't a main concern. So when I found this tank I bought
not gravel but 350lbs of Florite. Florite is Excellent for
plant growth as a subtrate it contains many of the trace
elements & Iron needed for healthy plants. 350lbs gave me
a bed of roughly 4~5 inches deep across the entire bottom.

I'm going to tell you what I have done with my 180g
and not what I have read or someone else told me too try.
Everyone has an opion, a way that they believe works better
or best. I speak from my own experence and I have been
in the trade off & on for over 25yrs. I still have some wholesale
connections. I spent $175 in total on my first planting @ a
wholesaler in Florida, $175 wholesale in plants is
roughly $700 retail @ any desent LPS,... trust me on this! So I
had quite a bit of plants stocked in my tank. Not just 1 or 2 pieces
each but in some cases like with Corkscrews I had 24 - 8" tall pieces
to work with. Upon my second planting I purchased more exotic plants
like Madagasgar Lace plants, bought them as just bulbs and saved, also purchased 6-30" Amazon Swords with bunches of buds from shoots. Collected from the lakes out and around my home in Florida Brazilian Swords,
Moneywort, cabomba and hydrillia, not too for get water lettuce, and anything else I could pull up without becoming gator bait.

I changed the basic full flo hood over to a VHO 72" 1~Violet
and 1~pure white tube, using 2 tubes for a
total 160watts per tube for 320watts and placed them on
a timer. I also added another timer for my aeration system.
When the lights & C02 system went off, my aeration system
came on an hour later. I do not use pressurized C02 tanks,
but you may prefer too, I use CARBO-PLUS System, it is the
overall least expensive and troublesome system for me to use. I
don't have too worry about pressured tanks and any leaks,
that may cause "my case headaches", I just
change the cartrige and replace the holder and I'm good to go.

And I use an U.G.F. that I contructed myself, running
through pre-drilled holes in the floor of the tank, water
dropped through too an OceanClear canister containing
Chemi-Pure and Bio-balls as media and pumped back to the
tank @ a rate of 1017GPH or 5 times the valume of the tank
per hour. This is the only filteration I used, basically
I get 2 for 1 filteration. (All nutrients in all forms,
poop and added fertilizers go straight through the subtrate
where the plant roots are). I have seen in some plants
grow at a rate on 6 inches per day. (Moneywort, cabomba and
hydrillia)

Note that Java Fern and Java Moss are all
very hearty plants but are also very slow growers unless
you use C02 and have a good amount of nutrients in the water,
also Moss Balls will grow slower than dirt unless you use
C02 and a ton of light. You can grow most plants using C02
and 10-12 hour photo periods, Seachem makes very good
fertilizers and trace elements for plants.

Remember the more plants you have the more minirals and nutrients
you need for them. - NOTE the statement about plants not using photo-periods longer than 12 hours, is nonsense, just ask those people that grow "Pot".

Now on to your Algae problem, this is why I asked about your
Nitrate levels, but I should have also asked you about the
phosphate levels, either your Nitrate and or phosphate levels are
high this is why you are having troubles with algae. Regardless
of what others tell you, sheesh don't take my word for it look
it up, invest in a good book on Aquascaping & plants. Look it up,
without Nitrates and Phosphates algae doesn't exist (well it exists, just like Ich pronouned Ick, but almost at doorment levels. Algae
is a plant, but more of a plant parasite, others will have you
believe that it grows because theres too large of a photo period a.k.a
too much light, if this was true why then does Algae grow where
there is little to NO light? Lower your phosphate and nitrate
levels and your algae DIES end of story (becomes doorment again) Main cause of Algae, over feeding, which leads too many nutrients

for the other plants and the system to handle. So algae is then able to feed
and grow. (Ever clean the out the tank to a toilet?, cleaned my just a
few days ago after changing out some parts, thick growth of
blackish blue ALGAE growing in there across the bottom,
the water changes constantly in there but theres NO light at all, since the last time I had to do this was 18 plus months ago, but yet theres Algae,
things that make you go hmmmmmmm). Algae and light, the only reason algae requires light is too grow faster and green! (poor way too put it,but you get what I mean)

This post is just going on and on. Just remember Aquascaping is an Art, and as such there are delicate balances that must be maintained. When to clip the plants, what does yellowing mean, what does brown spots mean, when is the tank growth too thick, how and when too use red, reddish, reddish-purple, vivid green, dark green, brown green, yellowish etc coloration in
plants and how to get them all to work together. Some plants
you gotta force to grow where you want them too grow otherwise
they don't look as nice as if you force them by way of tying
them down, anchoring so they go where you want them to go and
do what you want.

I wish you the best of luck with your aquascaping and your tank, also remember some pleco's when faced with no algae too eat will feed on your $10~$20 plants, then what should you do? Good Aquascaping isn't easy, and ain't cheap either it's a true Art form, like a rock garden.

If you feel I didn't answer a question well enough just re-ask it, or if you have any more questions please feel free to ask me I will tell you what I know and have tried and that works for me.
Not all alga grow based on nitrate or phosphate levels. Some grow on silicates, some grow on lighting that isn't intense enough, some on iron, some on potassium, and even some grow in ideal nitrate to phosphate levels in planted aquaria. To say that nitrate and phosphate is all that grows algae, is silly. As you said, algae is a plant, and just like plants, different types of algae grow on different types of nutrients.

Another issue, you speak of plecos eating plants. Only a handful of the over 500 species eat plants. A vast majority of the loricariids available in the hobby are meat eaters, and wouldn't touch your plants to eat.
 
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