Water aeration.

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Potamotrygon
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a air bubble in the water has surface area like the top of the water though right?
so wouldn't the air bubbles disperse as well?
In my mind, you are correct here...an air bubble is essentially a small air-water interface traveling through your water column, just like the water surface in your tank. I don't know why people keep suggesting airstones are useless in this regard.
 

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Potamotrygon
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I would agree that circulation pumps or wavemakers or whatever they are called nowadays are probably the best method of aeration, especially if a venturi air intake is added to produce those wonderful bubbles. I've read and heard a lot of people stating that the bubbles themselves are the primary source of aeration, which I personally don't believe...but they can't possibly hurt. IMHO, it's the water circulation that is produced, moving water through the tank in a current which exposes all the water to the surface where it can experience maximum gas exchange.

If you have only one or two tanks...or if you literally don't care about efficiency, cost, etc...then water pumps are the way to go. But if you have multiple aquariums and must pay at least some attention to efficiency and costs, then it's hard not to swing towards airstones and airpumps. A central air pump that feeds multiple airstones and/or sponge filters is an absolute godsend. Adding extra filters, quickly setting up extra tanks for fry, quarantine, isolation, etc is literally as simple as adding another airline and dropping in an airstone.

I use water pumps and sumps in my larger tanks and systems, but even those always have at least an airstone, usually powering a sponge filter, in each individual tank. It's a terrific fail-safe feature; if the water pump malfunctions, or the circle trips (you do use GFCI's, don't you?) or you simply forget to turn the water pump back on after feeding, servicing, etc...the airstone is still bubbling merrily away, and punching way above its weight/cost in terms of maintaining your tank.

I wonder: of the serious aquarists who own and maintain numerous multiple tanks...especially if they are breeders...how many of them actually mess with individual water pumps in each tank? And, conversely, how many use a central air system and airstones in each tank? I suspect that almost anyone who knows such a hobbyist and has seen the fishroom in question...knows the answer to that question.
I've been doing this whenever I set up a tank now--mount a stone on the back wall out of sight hooked into a separate circuit.
 

jjohnwm

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In my mind, you are correct here...an air bubble is essentially a small air-water interface traveling through your water column, just like the water surface in your tank. I don't know why people keep suggesting airstones are useless in this regard.
You are absolutely correct in stating that the surface area of the bubble functions like the surface area at the top of the tank; that's why smaller bubbles are more efficient than large ones. A big bubble contains X amount of air; the same amount of air spread among a large number of smaller bubbles will have more surface area.

But the surface area of all those bubbles likely works out to a relatively small percentage of the area at the surface of the water...and yet the addition of aeration has a much more profound effect on the carrying capacity of an aquarium than just a few percentage points. It likely doubles or triples the carrying capacity of any tank, big or small.

If the surface are of the bubbles were the primary benefit of aeration, then an airstone added to a large tank would have an inconsequential effect, since the bubbles would be a tiny fraction of the surface area of that large tank. The effect would be much more noticeable in a small tank with a smaller surface area...but in practice, dropping a single small airstone in virtually any tank makes a huge difference. This seems to indicate, IMHO, that it is the water circulation created by the airstone that is the primary benefit.
 

eon aquatics

Aimara
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So are air stones a scam then?
One would think they add a little air the water at least?
 

jjohnwm

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Lol, no, of course they're not a "scam". Nobody questions that they work, we just debate the particular way in which they contribute to the aquarium.
 

eon aquatics

Aimara
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"An air stone is sometimes known as an aquarium bubbler and sits within your fish tank in order to diffuse air into your fish tank water."

"Air stones also help with water resistance which can be important for fish growth and muscle development."
 

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Potamotrygon
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You are absolutely correct in stating that the surface area of the bubble functions like the surface area at the top of the tank; that's why smaller bubbles are more efficient than large ones. A big bubble contains X amount of air; the same amount of air spread among a large number of smaller bubbles will have more surface area.

But the surface area of all those bubbles likely works out to a relatively small percentage of the area at the surface of the water...and yet the addition of aeration has a much more profound effect on the carrying capacity of an aquarium than just a few percentage points. It likely doubles or triples the carrying capacity of any tank, big or small.

If the surface are of the bubbles were the primary benefit of aeration, then an airstone added to a large tank would have an inconsequential effect, since the bubbles would be a tiny fraction of the surface area of that large tank. The effect would be much more noticeable in a small tank with a smaller surface area...but in practice, dropping a single small airstone in virtually any tank makes a huge difference. This seems to indicate, IMHO, that it is the water circulation created by the airstone that is the primary benefit.
Yes but consider the sheer number of bubbles, the time elapsed while the bubble is traversing the water column (compared to say the duration of a surface ripple), and also the surface agitation caused by the uplifting of the bubbles...lot of complex math there and I know you despise my over-complications but I can't help thinking airstones are just all around superior and more reliable...

For instance, I leave my tank unattended for 5-7 days pretty often these days. Frequently when I get back the filter socks have thickened a bit and the water level in my tank will have climbed nearly an inch. The way my nozzles are set there is dramatically more surface agitation when the water level is lower so I can't really rely on agitation for consistent aeration, though it is probably just an imagined problem for me and nothing major.
 

jjohnwm

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Yes but consider the sheer number of bubbles, the time elapsed while the bubble is traversing the water column (compared to say the duration of a surface ripple), and also the surface agitation caused by the uplifting of the bubbles...lot of complex math there and I know you despise my over-complications but I can't help thinking airstones are just all around superior and more reliable...

For instance, I leave my tank unattended for 5-7 days pretty often these days. Frequently when I get back the filter socks have thickened a bit and the water level in my tank will have climbed nearly an inch. The way my nozzles are set there is dramatically more surface agitation when the water level is lower so I can't really rely on agitation for consistent aeration, though it is probably just an imagined problem for me and nothing major.
Lol, I don't despise your over-complications! Somebody's gotta do that and it sure ain't gonna be me! :)

As far as elapsed time in the water column goes, I think we can ignore that since at any given moment the number of bubbles in the column, and therefore their surface area, remains pretty much the same. I completely agree that the surface agitation and current created is a major benefit, in fact I said that I thought that was a more important component to airstones than the surface area of the bubbles.

I also agree wholeheartedly that airstones, especially when used to power sponge filters, are by far more efficient than water pumps for virtually any multi-tank set-up. For the guy with one tank, a simple pump that is dropped in and plugged in will probably do more per dollar spent and with less hassle. But I will never give up my airpump and air system; if I were forced to choose right now between using only water pumps or air pumps, and not both...there wouldn't be any contest. I'd switch to air-only in a heartbeat. It would require a bit of re-organizing to set things up, as moving water from one tank to another, or from a sump to a tank, is a bit more complicated with air but still very doable. And, of course, the 50-water-turnovers-per-hour crowd would suffer heart palpitations...but since in actuality we all have the choice, and can also choose both at once, everything is good. :)

I firmly believe that simpler is better; I guess if that is correct, I must be wonderful! :)
 
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