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Discus-Hans;3694054; said:
Sorry, JCM I agree it's easier to grow a small Discus to a good size in a BB tank. But disagree you screw them up for life in a planted tank, maybe you know I'm from Holland and everybody has planted tanks with Discus, nobody has a BB tank as show tank in the living room. And yes, I'm a LFS/hatchery/importer in one, but we don't tell people stories to sell Discus,

Hans
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I honestly believe there is no way to reach discus' full potential growth and health wise raising them in a planted tank. The elements just don't mix. While a planted tank will not totally ruin your discus you will not get the best results raising discus in a planted tank. You will have many more problems and trouble in a planted tank. And still unless it is your livelihood most people do not have the time to adequately raise discus in a planted tank.

Best bet is to grow them out and then move them to a planted show tank.
 
And Hans i didnt mean to generalize but, there are alot of LFS and hatcheries that give poor advise and in order to sell fish. I have alot in my time try and feed me BS.
 
Hans, if you don't mind me asking, what is your KH and pH at? I'm trying to get a good consensus on this, since this is something I can change easily to fit the Discus' needs, and no one else in the tank will really care.

Basically, I know that these are not the BEST conditions in which to keep these fish by most folks' standards. But, what I'm trying to do is tailor everything that I can to their needs. I will be purchasing two more Discus on Monday, because everyone seems to urge that. I have raised temp and may raise it a degree or two more. As I said, I am keeping Nitrate at 10 or below.

Thanks to everyone who offered advice; I am taking it all into consideration and will make changes accordingly.
 
jcm412;3694318; said:
I honestly believe there is no way to reach discus' full potential growth and health wise raising them in a planted tank. The elements just don't mix. While a planted tank will not totally ruin your discus you will not get the best results raising discus in a planted tank. You will have many more problems and trouble in a planted tank. And still unless it is your livelihood most people do not have the time to adequately raise discus in a planted tank.

Best bet is to grow them out and then move them to a planted show tank.
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its possible to grow them out in a planted tank. i've seen someone do it. they even had it spawned and raised there youngs in the planted tank. only problem is they have peppering but expected since they are pigeon base. people raise them in bb cuz its easier to clean and better than planted but these people are raising and selling. i have mine in a planted tanked. got them at 3.5 now there 4-4.5 after 2-3 months. only bad thing is some of them have peppering on its face. i keep my discus with 1 large altum...no problems....what doesnt work for you doesnt mean it wont work for others.
 
I have my discus growing out in a planted community tank. See this thread http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261742

My temp is 85, ph 7.8, am-0,ni-0, na-10. I do daily water changes of 30-50% with major vaccing (takes 1-2 hours a day). Feed 5-6 times a day.

It can be done, but is very labor intensive.
 
Im trying to find he article but on average discus raised in a planted tank are on average something like 3 inches smaller than discus raised in a BB.
 
jcm412;3695201; said:
Im trying to find he article but on average discus raised in a planted tank are on average something like 3 inches smaller than discus raised in a BB.
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The reason is water quality. Growing discus are extremely sensitive to water quality, which is the reason they stunt so easily. In a planted tank, both the plants and substrate trap debris that are difficult to remove. Any debris not removed from the tank will degrade water quality and stunt discus. Small discus need multiple feedings of high protein food daily to grow properly, and high protein food degrades in water rapidly, which compounds the problem. Unless you have the time to devote to the tank like Snoopy does, you are much better off growing the fish out first, or buy adults to start with for a planted tank. Stress is also a factor in discus growth. Discus grow better in groups of their own kind. A tank that is mixed with different species of fish can stress little ones and affect growth, and cause health problems. For these reasons and others, I think this tank is doomed to failure as far as the discus fish are concerned. Always remember, no matter what you do, your tank will never be as clean and forgiving as a river in nature. A tank only represents a "fly on the horse's butt" compaired to a river that has constant flowing water to flush out debris, and hundreds or thousands of miles of "tank space".
 
I agree with hillbilly. The thing most people who try to grow discus in a community tank forget is: No matter what else is in the the tank, be it substrate, plants, livestock, anything......IT HAS TO BE A DISCUS TANK FIRST AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS SECONDARY! This means everything has to adapt to what a discus needs or be compatible to what a discus needs or the discus will either be stunted, ill, or dead. It isn't hard to keep discus within the parameters of what they need, but they can not adapt for long outside of those parameters. And once ill, it is VERY hard to get them healthy again.
 
Okay, so as I have stated, they will have two more buddies on Monday.

As for everyone talking about water quality, the only way we really have to determine water quality is a Nitrate test. Obviously, there's other crap dissolved in that water, but I don't have a test for it. Maybe this is where the problem comes in that it's a planted tank. In any case, If I'm doing water changes to keep Nitrate below 10 (which isn't that many more than I usually do, because I'm a stickler for keeping it under 20 in any of my tanks), then isn't that water quality the "same" as what would be in a bare-bottom tank with a Nitrate level of 10? What's the difference that it's planted? I don't add anything to the water for the plants except for C02. The substrate is play sand, and is very easy to vacuum.

Again, I'm not trying to argue with anyone here -- I obviously realize that I'm in for a tougher time here with these fish than most who keep them. But I'm willing to do the work.
 
Plants need CO2 but discus need plenty of oxygen. Plants need alot of birght light, discus need low light. Plants need waste in the water to grow, discus need clean water to grow. Discus need many water changes, many water changes can be kill plants. Discus need high temps to live, alot of plants (not all) need lower temps. Discus eat mainly off the ground, the substrate and plants on ground dont allow the discus to eat all the food. This creates two problems the fish dont eat as much and the food gets trapped in many places and rots. Rotting food along with rotting plant matter degrade water quality. Having a planted discus tank is a give and take relatioship. Both need totally different things to thrive. Juvi discus are delicate and can't handle these things. There is alot more to it than nitrates.
Also growth is just one of the problems you will have in the planted tank. You also have to deal with stress and disease. All of the things i listed can cause stress. When discus are stress they become susceptible to disease and parasites. Then on top of that you have other fish in there like angels that carry parasites and disease that discus are susceptible to in the first place. When discus get sick they dont eat and wither away and die. Then he parasite can often move to another discus if all of them arent infected anyways. Now once young discus are sick they are hard to cure if not identified right away. And even if identified right away doesnt mean you'll definetly cure them. Trust me internal parasites can be missed very easily if you dont know what to look for. And often times if they are cured they are stunted anyways.

Your best bet is to get a grow out tank for your discus. It will save you alot of time, money, and heart ache. Maybe when you get alittle more experience with discus you can try to raise discus in a planted community tank.
 
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