What are your opinions about hybrid cichlids?

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There are nothing wrong with Hybrids...they are equally beautiful. Even with other species of animals: dogs and even people.

Actually most humans are hybrids.
Really? Homo sapien x What exactly?
An article from 1999 about hominid evolution is about like flipping through your parents record collection to get an idea of what 2011's music is like. Hybridization with Neanderthals is considered extremely minimal... we basically just wiped them out :) ....dogs are also technically not hybrids.
 
One thing I don't understand about hybrids is generally the offspring look no where near as nice as either parent species. One of the few exceptions I can think of is RTC x TSN. But the fish in the post linked to above doesn't look as good as a regular JD or Texas. Why try for offspring not nearly as attractive as the parent species? I've also seen some con x FM that are just plain hideous.
 
I do, however, have a problem with intentional hybridization in a captive and controlled environment and mostly for the intention of profit as with Flowerhorns and Blood Parrots. And what if these things get out in the wild? There are already huge problems with released fish in Florida waters. We don't need hybrids out there too possibly re-hybridizing with available contaminate species.

I 100% agree, the last thing we need is for people to release ANY captive fish ANYWHERE.

I personally don't breed hybrids for profit, I make almost enough to pay for fish food. Thats hardly worth it financially, I breed them because I find them beautiful. To do it for any other reason seems disgusting, so I agree 100% on that one too. There are far too many that don't think as I do, they are definitely just in it for the money and or status.

However...
I just think that we are running a huge risk in potentially contaminating the very fish that we love. Just think if FH's are mostly Trimac and some get into a system where Trimac naturally reside? There are so many screw ups with introduced species already (ie Lake Victoria), but we throw in something not natural on top of it.

Problems continue to compound upon each other. So why run the risk of contributing to it and as responsible fish keepers, deal with your hybrids like you should.

1. Could fish released in the US contaminate a wild poulation of trimac? I don't see this as very probable, and is in the end questioning a different sort of ethic.
As stated previously NO responsible aquarist should EVER release a captive fish into the wild, regardless of its ancestory!
2. What fish keepers "should" do with hybrids sounds like a pretty loaded/inflammatory statement.

I hate when hybrids with clear and obvious signs of deformity/ill health are bred, I wish it would stop, I think it's wrong...but I don't think I have the right to tell other breeders to stop. They (I assume), are grown and have the right to choose their own set of ethics.

Some think parrots and short body fish in general are hideous...an abominantion..but I happen to love them. Again, thats my personal ethic, my choice.

The only set of ethics that "should" bind us as aquarists collectively, are just common sense and humane treatment.

1. Always treat your fish humanely, appropriate size tank, proper food, keep them in good health etc.
2. Always honestly represent the fish you breed/sell/give away.
3. Never release a captive fish into the wild for any reason.

Breeding a deformed fish is inhumane, to me many fish in the hobby..especially goldfish are simply just wrong. As are batman ray's. As are bulldog discus. As are fancy guppies with tails so long and flowing they can barely swim. As are bettas...over long fins they can barely use, skeletal fins that are almost functionless. Flowerhorn's with such a large/lowhanging nuchal hump they must swim in an upright position just to see...over time their muscles atrophy from improper usage/development and their body curls/deforms into the shape of the letter c.....

All these things are awful to me...I simply don't choose to support the ones I think are wrong by buying them. You will never change the atrocities you see occurring in the hobby, just as you will never get everyone to agree on what exactly is ethically/morally wrong.
 
Do you think buying from a "Credible" source is getting a true Trimac??? Like the Rapps, etc. I've always admired Trimacs as well, not that I can take anymore fishes.

Yes, there are at least two very credible sources that I know of for trimacs, one you already mentioned, the other would be Don Conkel. Either one is the real deal, they absolutely won't jerk you around and they have top quality fish.

p.s. have to give a particular shout out for Jeff Rapps, dealt with him many times...trust me you will not be dissapointed.
 
I hate when hybrids with clear and obvious signs of deformity/ill health are bred, I wish it would stop, I think it's wrong...but I don't think I have the right to tell other breeders to stop. They (I assume), are grown and have the right to choose their own set of ethics.

Some think parrots and short body fish in general are hideous...an abominantion..but I happen to love them. Again, thats my personal ethic, my choice.

...

Breeding a deformed fish is inhumane, to me many fish in the hobby..especially goldfish are simply just wrong. As are batman ray's. As are bulldog discus. As are fancy guppies with tails so long and flowing they can barely swim. As are bettas...over long fins they can barely use, skeletal fins that are almost functionless. Flowerhorn's with such a large/lowhanging nuchal hump they must swim in an upright position just to see...over time their muscles atrophy from improper usage/development and their body curls/deforms into the shape of the letter c.....

All these things are awful to me...I simply don't choose to support the ones I think are wrong by buying them. You will never change the atrocities you see occurring in the hobby, just as you will never get everyone to agree on what exactly is ethically/morally wrong.
But BP are extremely deformed, many can't close their mouths and some can't even swim upright. Balloon/short bodied fish are quite deformed. BP and balloon fish are more deformed than many fancy goldfish I've seen. I'm not understanding how you can love them yet think breeding for deformities is inhumane.
 
Thought you guys might enjoy this... :D

pure-at-heart.jpg
 
I 100% agree, the last thing we need is for people to release ANY captive fish ANYWHERE.

I personally don't breed hybrids for profit, I make almost enough to pay for fish food. Thats hardly worth it financially, I breed them because I find them beautiful. To do it for any other reason seems disgusting, so I agree 100% on that one too. There are far too many that don't think as I do, they are definitely just in it for the money and or status.

However...


1. Could fish released in the US contaminate a wild poulation of trimac? I don't see this as very probable, and is in the end questioning a different sort of ethic.
As stated previously NO responsible aquarist should EVER release a captive fish into the wild, regardless of its ancestory!
2. What fish keepers "should" do with hybrids sounds like a pretty loaded/inflammatory statement.

It is really not that far fetched. There are case where fish have been introduced because of flooding. For instance, the Japanese Carp in the Illinois River. Most likely was introduced this way and now is a real problem and it is heading your way. Not all released non-indigenous species are released intentionally.

I hate when hybrids with clear and obvious signs of deformity/ill health are bred, I wish it would stop, I think it's wrong...but I don't think I have the right to tell other breeders to stop. They (I assume), are grown and have the right to choose their own set of ethics.
I don't agree with a moral relativist view on this. Just because you don't think it is bad doesn't mean it isn't. Besides, what happens when you create a hybrid then sell it off to some jack monkey who throws it in Lake Michigan. Who is to blame? Him or you?

Some think parrots and short body fish in general are hideous...an abominantion..but I happen to love them. Again, thats my personal ethic, my choice.

The only set of ethics that "should" bind us as aquarists collectively, are just common sense and humane treatment.

1. Always treat your fish humanely, appropriate size tank, proper food, keep them in good health etc.
2. Always honestly represent the fish you breed/sell/give away.
3. Never release a captive fish into the wild for any reason.

Breeding a deformed fish is inhumane, to me many fish in the hobby..especially goldfish are simply just wrong. As are batman ray's. As are bulldog discus. As are fancy guppies with tails so long and flowing they can barely swim. As are bettas...over long fins they can barely use, skeletal fins that are almost functionless. Flowerhorn's with such a large/lowhanging nuchal hump they must swim in an upright position just to see...over time their muscles atrophy from improper usage/development and their body curls/deforms into the shape of the letter c.....

All these things are awful to me...I simply don't choose to support the ones I think are wrong by buying them. You will never change the atrocities you see occurring in the hobby, just as you will never get everyone to agree on what exactly is ethically/morally wrong.

But if you are hybridizing yourself and condoning the act you are just as guilty as the people doing what you think is awful. Just because your hybrids don't show any deformities, doesn't mean they aren't present internally. The abundance of moral relativism today really bothers me.
 
I don't agree with a moral relativist view on this. Just because you don't think it is bad doesn't mean it isn't. Besides, what happens when you create a hybrid then sell it off to some jack monkey who throws it in Lake Michigan. Who is to blame? Him or you?
This doesn't make much sense...I actually did say I thought it was bad...but that I didn't have the right to impose that view on others, also if I sold a fish...REGARDLESS of ancestory, and some idiot IRRESPONSIBLY releases it into the wild, he is in the wrong. I certainly don't RECCOMEND it to my customers. I thought we already covered the ethics of releasing fish?

But if you are hybridizing yourself and condoning the act you are just as guilty as the people doing what you think is awful. Just because your hybrids don't show any deformities, doesn't mean they aren't present internally. The abundance of moral relativism today really bothers me.

I very clearly said I don't condone or support the act of breeding the type of fish I think are wrong....do you think your pure species fish came from lines 100% untainted by any deformity? Or genetic weakness? How can you ever be sure? It doesn't make it OK because they are pure imo, nor does the lower incidence of these problems in pure fish matter...they're still there...internally. If you feel this way so strongly perhaps should have your fish's dna analyzed for any and all genetic defect...if they have any perhaps you can feed them to the hybrid catfish you own?

If you do that, I'll give you two dollars.
 
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