What do you think I might be dealing with here?

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
Hello; I do not know about how the medicines listed persist or not. Some which have copper based ingredients do persist and kill of invertebrate's is my understanding. Gues knowing about this will play out over time.

I figure the conditions are better mainly because of the increased WC. Again treating a symptom and something probably needs to be continued for a time. Keep up a heavy WC schedule for a while.

I have a Wal-Mart brand HOB on a 55. It has two filter chambers with slots for a detritus collecting filter media and a second slot for a grid which I figure is a media for BB to grow on in each slot. Every so often I remove the detritus media and toss it from one chamber only. I leave the BB media alone. I leave the tubes and chamber of the HOB alone. I replace the filter media which is loaded with fish poop and other decomposing stuff. Some weeks later I do the same for the other chamber. To me swishing old poop loaded media in tank water and putting it back is something like taking a shower and putting my dirty underwear back on. Not exactly the same of course.

I do not think your issue is from throwing away old filter media unless you scrub the entire HOB at the same time. The BB are sessile and it is my understanding the colonies are not easily washed off surfaces. They likely can survive a rinse ( do not use tap water) but not a scrub.

But my stance overall is we each get to run our tanks anyway we want. We also get to pick which advice to follow. I will not be offended by whatever you do.
Your advice seems reasonable to me. I'll follow it. At this point I'll do my best to maintain the correct levels. One thing I'm a little confused on, am I correct to understand the nitrite levels should rise a bit? As in it's a response to the beneficial bacteria? I have gotten some stability on Amazon and it should arrive by Saturday. Somebody (you?) said to do 75% water changes twice a week so I will do that and see what happens.
 
am I correct to understand the nitrite levels should rise a bit?
Hello; It gets confusing. The two toxins which BB take care of are Ammonia & nitrite. Different types of BB to be sure. ( likely there are many strains of BB ). The ordinary way it works is if tank conditions are suitable for one type of BB it is also suitable for the other. An answer to your question may depend on things not yet known.
Let me side track for a moment. The test strips in your pictures are not in favor with some members. Those members tend to trust the master test kits a bit more. I do not have a lot to say about this other than to look at the results as more of general indicators and not exactly precise.

My take is whatever happened to one type of BB very likely happened to the other type. The following expectation being it would be reasonable to expect both ammonia & nitrite to show up if such is the case.

Of the trio of toxins most commonly tested for the only one which is tolerated in tanks is nitrate. depending on who you follow 20 to 40 ppm are considered acceptable. One way I take the goal to be is to have zero for ammonia & nitrite and do a WC if the nitrates get above 20-40 ppm. Of course some run tanks at much higher levels of nitrate. You may want to read threads about hole in the head disease sometime, most of the time blamed on poor water conditions.

While I am rambling on let me add a bit about evaporation and WC. Because our tanks mostly run at higher temperatures and also because we want lots of aeriation in the water, evaporation happens. A WC needs to be a volume of water some multiple greater than the rate of evaporation. A simple way to gauge is to look at the water levels. If the level is down two inches since the last WC then the next WC needs to be at least 4 inches or more. When water evaporates the minerals, salts, growth inhibitors excreted by the fish and other such things remain and become more concentrated.

Hello; keep up with the WC for a couple of weeks and let us hope the fish recover. In the mean time try to find a BB starter culture. (I do not quite understand why fish shops do not offer this. Must be a reason)

some stability on Amazon
Hello; I have read about stability but do not have experience with it.
 
Perhaps my previous comment was unclear, I did not say to never change filter media, I said don't change all the media at once. And rinsing in old tank water is something you can do on a more frequent basis than replacing. For example I had a 60 gallon tank with a HOB, every 5 days or do I would do a 30-40% water change, and take the main poop filter and slosh it around in a bucket of the water I was removing from the tank, and put the filter media back, this is because it was dechlorinated already rather than using water from the tap that would kill off any BB in it, this is a common practice, if you have a ready source of dechlorinated water to rinse the filter in, then there's no need to do this in old tank water. And you do what you want with your underwear. Then every 6 weeks or 2 months I would throw away the main filter cartridge and replace with a new one. I never replaced the other media in the filter, some ceramic media and a sponge just before it. These only got rinsed in water change water every month or so. Removing the poo from the first filter every few days kept the tank cleaner than waiting until it was time to throw it away and replace it.

Back to this particular tank, any ammonia reading is bad for the fish, and sometimes it's hard to pinpoint why it happened, but if the tanks been running for over a year, it should have been cycled by this point, so something happened to change that. As mentioned before by skjl47 it could have been meds, it could have been adding too many fish too fast, it could have been filter maintenance, who really knows, but you need to reestablish healthy levels of bb. Without magic bottles, the ammonia eating bb establish first and the ammonia levels decrease over time, a few days to a couple weeks, as the colony growsand processes the ammonia, they produce nitrite, so you would start seeing nitrite readings, and the second type of bb that eat nitrite will start colonizing and over time the nitrite readings will peak and decrease as the colony balances to the available foor source, and they produce nitrate. Once you styart seeing nitrate then you have both colonies started working, and over time if the tank population is stable and feedings are regular etc, they will balance to consume and process the ammonia and nitrite so effectively it reads 0 on your tests and youll only see nitrate. This is an established mature cycle. With a healthy mature cycle, if you add a lot of fish, or throw away 1/2 your filter media, you may see a blip of ammonia or nitrite, but it would be gone in a day, there's plenty of healthy bb to multiply quickly.

I'm not familiar enough with all the bottles available to tell you how they affect this process. some are starter bacteria that kickstart the process, others I believe react with the ammonia or nitrite making them less toxic or nuetralizing them to protect your fish, but don't boost your bb colony in any way. I would keep doing water changes every 2-3 days to reduce the amount of ammonia and nitrite in the water until the cycle is balanced. feed very lightly during this process, remove any uneaten food. Don't add any fish until it's cycled again. check your parameters on your qt tank as well, if thats reading 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite then it may be cycled and you could take a sponge from the filter, or some decor or something to put in the main tank and boost the cycle, if you've qtd long enough to be comfortable the fish aren't harboring any parasites or disease.
 
I'm not familiar enough with all the bottles available to tell you how they affect this process. some are starter bacteria that kickstart the process, others I believe react with the ammonia or nitrite making them less toxic or nuetralizing them to protect your fish, but don't boost your bb colony in any way. I would keep doing water changes every 2-3 days to reduce the amount of ammonia and nitrite in the water until the cycle is balanced. feed very lightly during this process, remove any uneaten food. Don't add any fish until it's cycled again. check your parameters on your qt tank as well, if thats reading 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite then it may be cycled and you could take a sponge from the filter, or some decor or something to put in the main tank and boost the cycle, if you've qtd long enough to be comfortable the fish aren't harboring any parasites or disease.
Hello; This.
 
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