As far as the extrusion process causing vitamins to be destroyed........
As long as a manufacturer takes into account that a certain percentage of some vitamins will be lost during the cooking process, and formulates their vitamin supplementation with this in mind, adjusting the ratios accordingly, it's actually possible that the vitamin & mineral content in their product could exceed one where the vitamins & minerals are added after the extrusion process.
As an example, if Brand A uses L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate as their source of vitamin C (which is very stable) at a rate of 750 mg/kg and adds it before the extrusion process, and Brand B adds a "cold" post extrusion vitamin supplement of 150 mg/kg of vitamin C, which food do you think is going to have a higher vitamin C content when that food is packed into each retail container? Using the vast majority of extruding, pelleting, or baking processes found in the aquaculture industry, I can assure you that it won't be Brand B.
Calcium montmorillonite clay & the 60 mineral compounds ......
This logic or theory (I don't believe there are any scientific papers on the subject of feeding clay to cichlids etc) originates with mud/clay bottomed Koi ponds in Japan, and the belief by many Koi breeders that mud lined ponds produce better Koi than cement ponds. This logic is based on the belief that the natural mineral content found in mud enhances the fishes color & overal health, as do the natural feedstuffs found in a mud bottomed pond. With the fish feed costing over half the total costs of running a Koi farm, this would also translate into overall operation savings, espectially if organic & inorganic fertilisers are added to the pond (such a chicken droppings) to maximize the natural feedstuffs found in the pond.
I don't believe that the idea of the adsorption properties of clay ever played into this concept in the early days of breeding Koi, but is more of a recent event since the promotion & sale of this clay by health gurus over the past 25 years or so. While there are scores of vendors selling clay for the use in Koi ponds, I certainly don't see many freshwater or marine people jumping on the clay bandwagon.
While adding trace mineral elements to tap water that's void in certain minerals may be beneficial to some fish, a high quality food will contain an ample amount of these trace elements & minerals in the food itself. If for whatever reason one is still concerned about this, an easy fix would be to add something as simple as a teaspoon of a natural sea salt to your tank with each water change.
As an example ...........
Analysis: Coarse Grey Sea Salt Chloride: 51%; Sodium: 32%; Water from crystalization: 7%; Sulfur: 1.12%; Zinc: .87%; Magnesium: .50%; Iron: .38%; Potassium: .26%;Manganese: .026%; Copper: .018%; Calcium: .012%; Silicon: .011%; Micro-Elements: Carbon: .034%; Strontium: .009%; Boron: .004%; Hydrogen: .003%; Fluorine: .001%; Nitrogen: .0008%; Argon: .0005%; Lithium: .0002%; Rubidium: .00014%; Phosphorus: .000112%; Iodine: .00007%; Barium: .00002%; Molybdenum: .000012%; Nickel: .000008%; Arsenic: .0000037%; Uranium: .0000038%; Vanadium: .0000024%; Tin: .0000009%; Cobalt: .00000045%; Antimony: .00000035%; Silver: .00000032%; Krypton: .00000024%; Chromium: .0000002%; Mercury: .0000002%; Neon: .00000012%; Cadmium: .000000112%; Selenium: .0000001%; Germanium: .00000007%; Xenon: .00000006%; Scandium: .00000005%; Gallium: .000000035%; Zirconium: .00000003%; Lead: .000000026%; Bismuth: .000000024%; Niobium: .000000023%; Thalium: .000000022%; Gold: .000000019%; Pico-traces of: Helium; Lanthanum; Neodymium; Thorium; Cerium; Cesium; Terbium; Yttrium; Dysprosium; Erbium; Ytterbium; Hafnium; Gadolinium; Prasodymium; Beryllium; Samarium; Holmium; Lutecium; Tantalum; Thulium; Europium; Tungsten; Protactinium.
If my count is correct, I counted a total of 71 minerals & trace elements. If I really felt the need, which I do not, I could buy a bag of natural sea salt for $20 or less, and at a teaspoon per water change it would probably last me into the next decade.
As far as clay being used to neutralize metabolic toxins, exactly what toxins would those be?
Feed mills based in the USA use highly regulated certified sampling and analysis methods to guarantee quality and purity. In 1997 the US Food and Drug Administration mandated that all fish processors develop and implement Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Point (HACCP) plans. HACCP plans identify and control potential hazards throughout food processing, from receiving ingredients, to their distribution, and their use.
In other words, at the manufacturing stage, the chances of fish food that is manufactured in the USA, with quality inspected USA based raw ingredients, containing mycotoxins, is slim to none, especially if that feed does not contain corn, cottonseed, or peanut meal.
Is using clay in fish food really a good idea?
This has always been something that I've been concerned about; if Montmorillonite Clay has such high adsorption properties, how does one know that non-toxic substances (such as essential nutrients & minerals) are also not being adsorbed?
The following comment was made by an MD who is actually very pro montmorillonite clay, yet he too warns about the potential of clay absorbing items of nutritional value, such as vitamins, along with any potential toxins.
http://www.cfsdoc.org/bentonite.htm
Both science, and common sense would lead me to believe that it if one simply wants to add minerals & trace elements to their fishes environment, there are far less complex (and perhaps safer) ways to do so, such as adding a small amount of natural sea salt to their tank water.
And while they don't use corn in their food, they do use soybean meal, and what appears to be a rather high inclusion rate of wheat germ.
Soybean Meal - Most high quality fish food formulas now use Soybean Isolate or Concentrate as their source of soybean, with one reason being the anti-nutritional factors contained in most Soybean Meal. While Soy Isolate costs more, like most things in life you get what you pay for.
You can read more on Soybean meal, and some of the nutritional problems that can be associated with its use, in the following link:
http://www.uoguelph.ca/research/publications/Assets/HTML_MAGS/oasis/nutrition3
Wheat Germ - why is it that an ingredient that is almost always seen with a high inclusion rate only in Koi food, is the #2 ingredient by weight in certain "cichlid" formulas? I find it intriguing that a manufacturer would state that they use wheat germ as a source of vitamin E and B. While crude wheat germ can indeed provide a single source of vitamin E, I believe that it's lacking in a few of the B complex vitamins (B7,B9,B12) and I would also imagine that all manufacturers add vitamin E & the various B complex vitamins in their vitamin & mineral pre-mixes or coating. Having said that I have no idea why a manufacturer of cichlid food would have such a large inclusion rate of this single ingredient in the vast majority of their formulas?
Wheat Germ is carbohydrate and although it can also supply certain amino acids (protein), and a source of energy to fish, there are far better ingredients that can achieve those results for most species of fish. (the average protein content of wheat germ is approx 24%) Once again Wheat Germ has always been favoured by Koi breeders as a "cold water" ingredient, due to it's supposedly high digestibility rate, and its supposedly high vitamin E content, as carp species do require a higher inclusion rate of vitamin E compared to many other fish species. (1993 NRC - Nutrient Requirements of Fish)
During winter months pond raised Koi also eat far less, so Wheat Germ has historically been used during these months as an extra boost in vitamin E. There's certainly nothing wrong with using Wheat Germ in a food that's formulated for species such as carp or Koi, quite frankly most serious Koi breeders expect it to be in a Koi formula (it seems to be a Japanese tradition in Koi formulas?), but a large inclusion rate of this raw ingredient certainly isn't required for optimum health in cichlid species. Also, if too much wheat germ (along with soybean meal) is used some of the carnivorous species of cichlids may have difficulty fully assimilating these ingredients, which means overall growth can be affected, as well as extra pollution being added to ones tank. What goes in, eventually comes out.
If a manufacturer wanted to ensure that their food contained a large inclusion rate of a natural form of vitamin E, they could simply add wheat germ oil, which is VERY high in vitamin E content. Of course it's a tad bit expensive, according to some stats it takes a full ton of wheat germ to make 100 grams of wheat germ oil.
While certain raw ingredients will provide the natural form of Vitamin E (d-alpha-tocopherol) the synthetic form (dl-alpha tocopherol) is almost always used in vitamin pre-mixes in aquaculture feeds due to the fact that it is far more stable. dl-a-tocopheryl is also the same form of vitamin E that's found in most multi-vitamins designed for human use.
FYI - anyone can post any type of BS that they want on their website.
As long as a manufacturer takes into account that a certain percentage of some vitamins will be lost during the cooking process, and formulates their vitamin supplementation with this in mind, adjusting the ratios accordingly, it's actually possible that the vitamin & mineral content in their product could exceed one where the vitamins & minerals are added after the extrusion process.
As an example, if Brand A uses L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate as their source of vitamin C (which is very stable) at a rate of 750 mg/kg and adds it before the extrusion process, and Brand B adds a "cold" post extrusion vitamin supplement of 150 mg/kg of vitamin C, which food do you think is going to have a higher vitamin C content when that food is packed into each retail container? Using the vast majority of extruding, pelleting, or baking processes found in the aquaculture industry, I can assure you that it won't be Brand B.
(NRC Nutrient Requirements of Fish 1993)
(Coehlo, 1996).
Calcium montmorillonite clay & the 60 mineral compounds ......
This logic or theory (I don't believe there are any scientific papers on the subject of feeding clay to cichlids etc) originates with mud/clay bottomed Koi ponds in Japan, and the belief by many Koi breeders that mud lined ponds produce better Koi than cement ponds. This logic is based on the belief that the natural mineral content found in mud enhances the fishes color & overal health, as do the natural feedstuffs found in a mud bottomed pond. With the fish feed costing over half the total costs of running a Koi farm, this would also translate into overall operation savings, espectially if organic & inorganic fertilisers are added to the pond (such a chicken droppings) to maximize the natural feedstuffs found in the pond.
I don't believe that the idea of the adsorption properties of clay ever played into this concept in the early days of breeding Koi, but is more of a recent event since the promotion & sale of this clay by health gurus over the past 25 years or so. While there are scores of vendors selling clay for the use in Koi ponds, I certainly don't see many freshwater or marine people jumping on the clay bandwagon.
While adding trace mineral elements to tap water that's void in certain minerals may be beneficial to some fish, a high quality food will contain an ample amount of these trace elements & minerals in the food itself. If for whatever reason one is still concerned about this, an easy fix would be to add something as simple as a teaspoon of a natural sea salt to your tank with each water change.
As an example ...........
Analysis: Coarse Grey Sea Salt Chloride: 51%; Sodium: 32%; Water from crystalization: 7%; Sulfur: 1.12%; Zinc: .87%; Magnesium: .50%; Iron: .38%; Potassium: .26%;Manganese: .026%; Copper: .018%; Calcium: .012%; Silicon: .011%; Micro-Elements: Carbon: .034%; Strontium: .009%; Boron: .004%; Hydrogen: .003%; Fluorine: .001%; Nitrogen: .0008%; Argon: .0005%; Lithium: .0002%; Rubidium: .00014%; Phosphorus: .000112%; Iodine: .00007%; Barium: .00002%; Molybdenum: .000012%; Nickel: .000008%; Arsenic: .0000037%; Uranium: .0000038%; Vanadium: .0000024%; Tin: .0000009%; Cobalt: .00000045%; Antimony: .00000035%; Silver: .00000032%; Krypton: .00000024%; Chromium: .0000002%; Mercury: .0000002%; Neon: .00000012%; Cadmium: .000000112%; Selenium: .0000001%; Germanium: .00000007%; Xenon: .00000006%; Scandium: .00000005%; Gallium: .000000035%; Zirconium: .00000003%; Lead: .000000026%; Bismuth: .000000024%; Niobium: .000000023%; Thalium: .000000022%; Gold: .000000019%; Pico-traces of: Helium; Lanthanum; Neodymium; Thorium; Cerium; Cesium; Terbium; Yttrium; Dysprosium; Erbium; Ytterbium; Hafnium; Gadolinium; Prasodymium; Beryllium; Samarium; Holmium; Lutecium; Tantalum; Thulium; Europium; Tungsten; Protactinium.
If my count is correct, I counted a total of 71 minerals & trace elements. If I really felt the need, which I do not, I could buy a bag of natural sea salt for $20 or less, and at a teaspoon per water change it would probably last me into the next decade.
As far as clay being used to neutralize metabolic toxins, exactly what toxins would those be?
(Juli-Anne Royes Russo and Roy P.E. Yanong - Department of Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences, Florida Cooperative Extension Service, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences, University of Florida)
Feed mills based in the USA use highly regulated certified sampling and analysis methods to guarantee quality and purity. In 1997 the US Food and Drug Administration mandated that all fish processors develop and implement Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Point (HACCP) plans. HACCP plans identify and control potential hazards throughout food processing, from receiving ingredients, to their distribution, and their use.
In other words, at the manufacturing stage, the chances of fish food that is manufactured in the USA, with quality inspected USA based raw ingredients, containing mycotoxins, is slim to none, especially if that feed does not contain corn, cottonseed, or peanut meal.
(Peter Spring and Daniel F. Fegan - Alltech Inc.)
Is using clay in fish food really a good idea?
(Abdel-Wahhab et al., 2005).
This has always been something that I've been concerned about; if Montmorillonite Clay has such high adsorption properties, how does one know that non-toxic substances (such as essential nutrients & minerals) are also not being adsorbed?
The following comment was made by an MD who is actually very pro montmorillonite clay, yet he too warns about the potential of clay absorbing items of nutritional value, such as vitamins, along with any potential toxins.
http://www.cfsdoc.org/bentonite.htm
Both science, and common sense would lead me to believe that it if one simply wants to add minerals & trace elements to their fishes environment, there are far less complex (and perhaps safer) ways to do so, such as adding a small amount of natural sea salt to their tank water.
And while they don't use corn in their food, they do use soybean meal, and what appears to be a rather high inclusion rate of wheat germ.
Soybean Meal - Most high quality fish food formulas now use Soybean Isolate or Concentrate as their source of soybean, with one reason being the anti-nutritional factors contained in most Soybean Meal. While Soy Isolate costs more, like most things in life you get what you pay for.
You can read more on Soybean meal, and some of the nutritional problems that can be associated with its use, in the following link:
http://www.uoguelph.ca/research/publications/Assets/HTML_MAGS/oasis/nutrition3
Wheat Germ - why is it that an ingredient that is almost always seen with a high inclusion rate only in Koi food, is the #2 ingredient by weight in certain "cichlid" formulas? I find it intriguing that a manufacturer would state that they use wheat germ as a source of vitamin E and B. While crude wheat germ can indeed provide a single source of vitamin E, I believe that it's lacking in a few of the B complex vitamins (B7,B9,B12) and I would also imagine that all manufacturers add vitamin E & the various B complex vitamins in their vitamin & mineral pre-mixes or coating. Having said that I have no idea why a manufacturer of cichlid food would have such a large inclusion rate of this single ingredient in the vast majority of their formulas?
Wheat Germ is carbohydrate and although it can also supply certain amino acids (protein), and a source of energy to fish, there are far better ingredients that can achieve those results for most species of fish. (the average protein content of wheat germ is approx 24%) Once again Wheat Germ has always been favoured by Koi breeders as a "cold water" ingredient, due to it's supposedly high digestibility rate, and its supposedly high vitamin E content, as carp species do require a higher inclusion rate of vitamin E compared to many other fish species. (1993 NRC - Nutrient Requirements of Fish)
During winter months pond raised Koi also eat far less, so Wheat Germ has historically been used during these months as an extra boost in vitamin E. There's certainly nothing wrong with using Wheat Germ in a food that's formulated for species such as carp or Koi, quite frankly most serious Koi breeders expect it to be in a Koi formula (it seems to be a Japanese tradition in Koi formulas?), but a large inclusion rate of this raw ingredient certainly isn't required for optimum health in cichlid species. Also, if too much wheat germ (along with soybean meal) is used some of the carnivorous species of cichlids may have difficulty fully assimilating these ingredients, which means overall growth can be affected, as well as extra pollution being added to ones tank. What goes in, eventually comes out.
If a manufacturer wanted to ensure that their food contained a large inclusion rate of a natural form of vitamin E, they could simply add wheat germ oil, which is VERY high in vitamin E content. Of course it's a tad bit expensive, according to some stats it takes a full ton of wheat germ to make 100 grams of wheat germ oil.
While certain raw ingredients will provide the natural form of Vitamin E (d-alpha-tocopherol) the synthetic form (dl-alpha tocopherol) is almost always used in vitamin pre-mixes in aquaculture feeds due to the fact that it is far more stable. dl-a-tocopheryl is also the same form of vitamin E that's found in most multi-vitamins designed for human use.
FYI - anyone can post any type of BS that they want on their website.
.. Now that was an interesting read.. for me the biggest thing that stood out is the "maximize the natural feedstuffs found in the pond." while their are alot of pellets on the market, and many are good, and a handful that are sworn by. I think the key to Overall fish health is having a diversity of quality foods, opposed to a singular "pellet". I use to be very addiment about "this flake is the best and only thing this species needs" or pellet, or sinking wafer, ect.. But since I have more or less been forced in the past 10 yrs to offer a larger variety of foods to my fish due to pickyness, illness, specialty needs, ect.. Trying to duplicate most species natural foods has given me healthier, stable, overall better quality fish. Each of my fish have their own "diet" within' reason. pelleted diets geared towards specific species is great, but imo you can never go wrong with expanding their food base off of a staple pelleted diet.
