Whats wrong with dinosaur reconstruction?

[DariusAmurdarja]

A hump can also be used for display:
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/252/2/5/spinosauridae_04_by_yoult-d49c86l.jpg

We have no clue how thick his neck was. Powerful muscles on his neck would help him to move its snout very fast through the water.

A skinny thin sail on the other hand is way to fragile. The skin would rip apart in the smallest fights. If i would be a Spino male and have that **** on my back i would not want a fight with any other animal.

 

[koltsixx]

A hump can also be used for display:
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/252/2/5/spinosauridae_04_by_yoult-d49c86l.jpg

We have no clue how thick his neck was. Powerful muscles on his neck would help him to move its snout very fast through the water.

A skinny thin sail on the other hand is way to fragile. The skin would rip apart in the smallest fights. If i would be a Spino male and have that **** on my back i would not want a fight with any other animal.

I agree that a hump could be used for display purposes, but I suggested that a dual purpose is usually a good indicator of how likely an adaptation would be to occur. I didn't say how thick his neck would be, I just stated that muscles on the center of his back wouldn't help his neck. The bison had his spines at the shoulders and the muscles attached to those spines would help support the neck because of their placement which is directly behind the head. How ever the spines on the Spino are highest on the center of the back and get smaller toward the neck and tail, so how would that help support the neck and therefore the snout move through the water.

I'm not asking how a strong neck helps swimming, I'm asking how does the hump fit into helping him swim better? Which you still didn't explain. To be totally clear in my question, how do you think the hump helped? What do you think it's function was besides simply display?

As far as the sail being fragile, the Basilisk gets along fine with it and that includes fights with other Basilisks over territory, mating and from predators that try to eat it. Reptile skin is notoriously thick and wouldn't be penetrated easily. My guess is at the size of Spino's their skin would be fairly durable. My guess is your thinking of a bat-like membrane covering the sail which is not what I'm suggesting. I'm talking about the sail being covered in reptile scales and skin. Even if you compare them to birds and their skin, the skin on a birds foot is reptilian and scaly.The last remaining bits of it's dino ancestry. So imagine skin like that covering the sail and perhaps you'll see more clearly what I'm talking about. It's why I compared them to the Basilisk, so you could see a modern interpretation of what I'm imagining.

 

[DariusAmurdarja]

A basilisk does not weigh 9 tons. A simple sail would be shredded to pieces in a normal combat. A roll over its back would lead to an instant death.

Things get even worse when you share your habitat with another giant theropod, Charcarodontosaurus. That beast was a sauropod killer and bigger than T rex.



If i would have been a Charcharodontosaurus, i would forget those Sauropods and specialize on Spinosaurus. I would have the stronger build body, no fancy sail on my back, stronger jaws and sharper teeth. Wait for the Spino and bite into the Sail to break its back. Or just push him over so he breaks his back himself. easy prey.

 

[wantokeeptrout]

why would spino and charcaodontosaurus share habitats when their believed prey was completely different. sauropods did not live in marshes, they lived by migrating across plains and on the edge of forests in order to find enough food. Charchadontosaurus would have therefore lived in a similar habitat to those sauropods if not outright stalked them. if spino was a fish eater like everyone says it was then It would have no business in those habitats and instead stick to marshes or oceanic coastlines where there is virtually no food aside from fish, which would not appeal to sauropods or charcadontosaurus. And also sauropods seem like pretty easy prey to me. I doubt they could pivot rapidly so all the carnivore has to do is outmaneuver it and attack the neck, which is pretty exposed for such an important anatomical feature. this behaviour is even well displayed in your image. spino on the other hand would have been a bit faster and it was more likely to inflict damage with its large arms, feet claws, and jaws to a lesser extent. Plus it would take a massive force to completely flip a spino over, if it was attacked and knocked over it would likely fall on it's side since there is no way charcadontosaurus could have sent an animal it's own mass bowling end over end.

 

[DariusAmurdarja]

Spino lived at river banks. A place where herbivores come to drink. Waterholes and rivers are the best hunting location till today, because much prey concentrates there. Charcarodontosaurus did share that area with Spinosaurus. A Sauropod is no easy meal. Its fast, strong and can knock you out with a single tail strike. Spinosaurus on the other hand would be an easy victim. Its teeth are conical and not sharp. The jaws are weak compared to others, its sail ( if he had ome) is fragile and easy target. As i said, i guess would eat it ha ha

 

[koltsixx]

Still didn't answer my question as to it's function and I've asked a lot of times. You compared the hump to a camels, how does that equal bigger stronger build? I don't think woah! that camel over there looks wicked ripped I wouldn't mess with him. I'm pretty sure most animals don't get intimidated by camels, but I could be wrong. You also failed to mention how these muscles would work to benefit the Spino in anyway shape or form. Your only logic seems to be a hump would be tougher than a sail which logically makes no sense. If they're both covered in skin, how does one offer more protection than the other? Unless the Spino's gonna be boxing with another dino and the hump would be used to cushion impacts. Otherwise how does a hump offer more protection from teeth?

Again you made the point about the back breaking despite me proving(not conjecture actually provable) that falling wouldn't break the Spino's back. That's why no scientist has ever used that as a case for any of their therioes against them having a sail, cause it makes no sense. Worst case scenario the spines would break, but not the actual spine. I even went through the whole thing of explaining the tensile strength of bones and how different impacts would affect the bone. Being 9 tons means nothing, They have proportionately bigger bones to compensate for their size. By the same logic then all Dino's should have been fragile since they weigh so much. If any of them fell they should be breaking bones left and right and maybe that's how they became extinct.lol! Look at the Brontosaurus now called Apatosaurus but what ever they weighed at least 25 tons and had no hump, do you think if one of them fell they're back would break like kindling? They also didn't have a hump to protect them so they must've had their spines ripped out left and right by predators.

As for the Carcharodontosaurus(proper spelling) they where barely bigger than a T rex and while a threat, wasn't it also you who earlier in this thread made the suggestion that these large carnivores including Spino where probably more likely scavengers? You also made it a point that Spino's had a weaker jaw than some other apex pred's of the time and suggested they might have fed on fish primarily. Meaning the adaptation for fighting off a larger predator like a hump makes no sense. Most apex pred's adaptations are for hunting not defense. Defense is usually associated with prey items such as herbivores. That's why porcupines have quills(defense) and lions have claws and teeth meant for offense. We have to look at them in that respect to. Since Spino is an apex pred. his adaptations would almost guaranteed to be for offense rather than defense. Also dino's aren't people and probably wouldn't be coming up with elaborate plans for fighting in they did fight over a carcass and another predator was already there. Like I don't think the Carcharodon would show up and be like ohhhh I bet that sail is an extention of that Spino's spine, so I'm gonna float like a butterfly till I maneuver behind him and then sting like a bee and break his back. They would have went toe to toe, head to head like animals do with instinct and intelligence telling them to go for the throat. As so colorfully illustrated by the pic you provided of Carcharodon.

The sail would be beneficial in increasing stability in the water as well as on land as well as like I said making the metabolism of Spino that much more efficient and therefore making them an apex predator.

 

[MN_Rebel]

Charachardontosaurus wasn't bigger than a Trex, just a slightly longer than a Trex. However Trex is heavyweight and robust-built while Charachardontosaurus were light-weight and fragile-built and Trex outweight Charachardontosaurus easily. Still Spinosaurus and Charachardontosaurus have different niches and different prey items....same with cheetahs, leopards and lions in same habitats but have different prey items and also different niches.

As I said before, its relatives doesn't have any problems to grab fish out of the fish despite lack of long spines....pretty much destoryed your own arguement.

 

[Lepisosteus platyrhincus]

Ok this thread has become worthless. OP has reverted to "well if I was blank". Thats all well and great but what youd want and not want to not alter facts. A carnivore is not gonna go after another large carnivor when the actual prey it hunted didnt have the same capabilities to fight back unless in extreme dire times. You really should understand basic animal behavior in your job. It would help you greatly, as well as make you realise a crap ton of issues with your theorys.

2 of us now have brought up a major issue with the muscler hump theory, which is the peak of the sail appears to be neither close to the neck, nor hind legs. Instead it appears to be directly over the front arms. If it was a hump for muscles, this would be its strongest point. Its arms. Did the spino play poker? Climb trees? No? Then why would its peak muscler strength dirived from the hump be at its arms?

Dont give us this, well if I was, because its irrelevant. Your a human, of course your gonna think differently. Give us facts to support your arguement and REFUTE the issues we have brought up.

 

[MN_Rebel]

Spino lived at river banks. A place where herbivores come to drink. Waterholes and rivers are the best hunting location till today, because much prey concentrates there. Charcarodontosaurus did share that area with Spinosaurus. A Sauropod is no easy meal. Its fast, strong and can knock you out with a single tail strike. Spinosaurus on the other hand would be an easy victim. Its teeth are conical and not sharp. The jaws are weak compared to others, its sail ( if he had ome) is fragile and easy target. As i said, i guess would eat it ha ha

Sure Spinosaurus' jaws may looks like weak to you but these predators regularly prey on ARMOURED fish especially giant ones...can you imagine how thick their scales are? We have hard time to open up an alligator gar..now increase its size to 8meters long.

 

[koltsixx]

Spino lived at river banks. A place where herbivores come to drink. Waterholes and rivers are the best hunting location till today, because much prey concentrates there. Charcarodontosaurus did share that area with Spinosaurus. A Sauropod is no easy meal. Its fast, strong and can knock you out with a single tail strike. Spinosaurus on the other hand would be an easy victim. Its teeth are conical and not sharp. The jaws are weak compared to others, its sail ( if he had ome) is fragile and easy target. As i said, i guess would eat it ha ha

Spinosaurs teeth are always compared to Crocodiles and have never been called dull as your saying. While the jaws may not have been efficient like T rex's or Carcharodon. at crushing things, they where very good at tearing. A good comparison for modern day jaw structures would be a Hyena(T rex,Carcharodon) and a Croc. (Spino). The Hyena has sharp teeth meant for crushing bones this plays into their primarily scavenger role. They actually crush bones and suck the marrow out and these teeth and jaws allow them to eat parts of the animal that other preds may not be able to. Again this plays into what you said earlier that T rex And Carcharodon where primarily scavengers. The jaw structure seems to fit the bill for that kind of lifestyle. While the Spino is more like a croc's primarily piscivore again something you suggested about Spino's. Jaws meant to clamp on and hold on to prey and pull pieces off. Here's another way the sail would help. Like a piranha's wide body provides leverage to help pull pieces off of prey the sail would help in the same way. The teeth sink in and the twisting force helps remove chunks of flesh proviided by the extra leverage the sail would provide.

In either case croc like teeth would be just as dangerous as hyena teeth in a fight. So the same would be true between Spino and Carcharodon. Bone crushing teeth versus impaling shredding teeth. It wouldn't be an easy win for either one.