Why are EBJDs 10x more expensive than regular JDs?

[prestage]

Personally from what ive seen about buying fish is that pet shops if they dont know what they are talking about just charge a price going on the size and colour of the fish since EBJD's are pretty colourful when they are young that might be why they are so expensive.. but then again if the shop knows about cichlids and such they would probably charge the price going on the species instead. Thats just my opinion and what ive seen lol not sure if its true around the world but it is here

 

[japes]

they are a naturally occurring reccessive gene fish

What proof do you have of this?

 

[Sarah88]

What proof do you have of this?

basic genetics, since the offspring numbers follow basic medelian ratios then that would mean its a basic recessive allele (and as far as i know no genetic testing has said they are hybrids), how would you explain them?

 

[japes]

basic genetics, since the offspring numbers follow basic medelian ratios then that would mean its a basic recessive allele (and as far as i know no genetic testing has said they are hybrids), how would you explain them?

No genetic testing has proven they're pure either, as far as I'm aware. The fact regarding price is that they're a huge money maker, with people willing to pay 10x more because they believe it's a rarer fish, and then noticeably higher mortality rates mean more sales.

I've seen claims that the initial EBJD strain was found in wild fish (Blue Genes, regular appearance). Given the recessive nature of the gene, and the healthy/hardy nature of Blue Gene Jack Dempseys, would it be a stretch to imagine that this gene is incredibly thoroughly wild spread in nature - as you pointed out, wild EBJD's (if such a thing exists, I'm skeptical) would not make it past fry stage due to their colouration and predation, even though equally vivid fish such as these well argued Vontehillo Texas don't seem to have a problem.

Inbreeding is the usual excuse given for the high mortality rate, overall weakness, and common occurrence of deformities within EBJD's, but with Blue Gene JD's being a wild, naturally recessive gene, wouldn't that bring in the possibility of F1/F2 (I'll leave F0 out of that) EBJD's.

I'm a "natural is beautiful" kind of fishkeeper, so my view is skewed, but I guess what I've just said above brings up the following queries.

- Why the genetic weaknesses from what is essentially a recessive colour gene, when the same is not present in many albino/leucistic/xanthic/piebald variants?
- Why have EBJD keepers, who I believe the onus should be on to provide proof they are a natural species, not funded and performed DNA testing? The same loop of "You have no proof it's not a hybrid > You can't prove it is a hybrid" continues to run on. They certainly make enough money from the fish themselves.

 

[Sarah88]

yeah i totally agree with that japes, and im sure there is the possibility of F1/F2 ebjd its just that as you know, you need to breed 2 bgjd together to get some ebjd offspring and it would be pretty near impossible to get 2 wild dempseys and they both happen to be bgjd since you cant tell from their looks its pure luck that the ebjd (assuming it is only a recessive gene) was even found in the first place those many years ago, and in-breeding of even the regular JDs would make the bgjd more common and so have greater chances of accidentally stumbling upon the mutation and of course when people saw this they jumped on it as a money making enterprise and in-bred them to get as many as possible, albinos/leucistics etc are also super rare in the wild and pretty much only happen in captivity as well since in the same way those young are just as susceptible to predation (and its true i think even ebjd if bred properly are still weaker than the regular fry (could still be simple recessive but with some other allele on the gene that makes it weaker, but i think the main part of it is the inbreeding, so they started with already somewhat weaker fry and then made them weaker) but like you said unless someone puts forth a lot of money to get all the testing done by an unbiased third party then this is all really speculation/ educated guesses

 

[japes]

albinos/leucistics etc are also super rare in the wild and pretty much only happen in captivity as well since in the same way those young are just as susceptible to predation

These are actually coloured different though. "Blue Gene" R. octofasciatus are the same in appearance to their perfectly normal counterparts, which leads me to wonder that if it was a wild gene, and granted its recessive nature and no noticeable negatives, why has this gene not spread thoroughly through wild populations?

 

[crisper]

Because people will pay 10x as much

exactly !

 

[Sarah88]

These are actually coloured different though. "Blue Gene" R. octofasciatus are the same in appearance to their perfectly normal counterparts, which leads me to wonder that if it was a wild gene, and granted its recessive nature and no noticeable negatives, why has this gene not spread thoroughly through wild populations?

when i said that quote i was referring to the ebjd not the bgjd, and how do you know it hasn't spread through the population?, just as we cant tell which wild fish carry the albino/leucistic genes in wild populations how can you measure the spread of it in the dempseys especially since very few are even being imported anymore? but yeah like i said until someone comes up with a conclusive scientific study this is all just conjecture

 

[B-Vincent]

Well LFS's mark up the price as well. If you can find someone that breeds them you can get them for a much more reasonable price. I recived mine for 10$ each from a local dealer that's been doing it for years and I'm really happy with my young EBJD's

 

[Snowflake311]

Yes.

EBJDs are weak, genetic mistakes that are normally culled off by natural selection. By breeding them, we are defying nature. On the flip side, it's not much different than modern medicine.

Look at some of our dog breeds. Most Bulldogs have to have C-sections because they have bred the heads too large. These dogs would never make it in the wild and would not be around if it were not for man. The chinese crested is a genetic freak if you breed 2 hairless together the whole litter dies. So you have to breed them to the powder puff kind to get a good batch of pups. Playing with genetics is nothing new.

It's simple they are more rare then the commons. The price is comming down give it a few years and they will be 5x less then they are now. I bought mine for $20 but I saw some little ones for $6. I like the ebjd because they are more mellow in general then the normal ones.

This is a resecive gene but is seen as weak and the fry are normaly killed off by parents. That's why you would never see one in the wild. This is not a hybrid but is selectively bred and yes lots of inbreeding when in to making them. But breeders understand better how to get these ebjd and less inbreeding is being done good breeders.