Why are these being sold????

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I was in a LFS in Maryland last week, and in one of their many crowded 15 gallon tanks, to my surprise I saw a baby (6-7") pima.

I am of the opinion that you should need a permit for arpaima, arowana, pacu, red tail cats, iridescent sharks... any fish that grows larger than about 18".
I think the rampant abuse and neglect of these fish is a real problem, and unless regulations are placed on purchasing them, it won't be addressed. The one-in-a-million customer who can actually house a pima, if they really want one, will be willing to apply for a permit. Very small price to pay for saving the lives of all the poor fish which are sold to inadequate homes.

Hell, I would be willing to file a permit for a neon tetra if they wanted me to. I personally think the animals' welfare should come first, and filling out a little paperwork, paying a small fee, waiting a short amount of time, are all insignificant inconveniences when weighed against the amount of fish that are neglected and abused daily.

I agree with you and its a very admirable thought. The neon tetra example would collapse the aquatic pet trade though which in turn would have its own ramifications with people that depend on those jobs.
 
Of course there is, along with that warm water tropical fish, any disease or pathogens found in that hobbyists system, has now been released in to the wild. Most releases take place in warmer months, not the dead of winter, so one also has to wonder how many smaller fish would die, before the tropical monster fish dies from the cold.

Ok then we're back to banning. If this is such a huge concern what separates these from a snakehead? Which is banned everywhere in the country I live in.

If we're picking the lesser of evils (which is essentially what we're doing here). Then the colder climate would be the better choice.
 
Bingo


Can you explain how labeling them as order only fish or how not having them stocked on an lfs helps your cause ?

Ive asked this a few times man.


What i feel is irrelevant in terms of right or wrong. Id rather they werent sold. But i couldnt advocate for them and exclude the thousand of other fish that meet much worse ends. At the end of the day these fish are not as widely available as you guys are making them out to be.



At least your willing to admit that you wouldnt mind putting in the same effort for a neon tetra as you would a prima. To me this is not hypocritical.
My argument is only where does it end ?

but you didnt agree that oscars and smaller fish were on the same level as mentioned earlier.
I said there is a big defence in being able to house an oscar than a pima.
But I do share gouramis veiw and would be happy to buy a permit or whatever to keep any fish if it helped save fish from miserable living conditions.
 
Education is key, lots of these questions are easily answered via one educating themselves on the subject. While I like to think globally, in the end my main focus is what's going on in my country. I have zero control over what's happening, or may happen in the future, somewhere else.

Myself and RD have explained this several times.

No kidding. lol
 
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Myself and RD have explained this several times.

I understand what you're saying and where you're coming from. I do agree.

Where we live though they have a tendency to blanket ban things instead of the laser point accuracy you're explaining. I think we all agree, but some of us are scared of what the end result would entail.
 
While I like to think globally, in the end my main focus is what's going on in my country. I have zero control over what's happening, or may happen in the future, somewhere else.

This is where we differ. I want the best for you in your country as well. I don't want my decision to negatively affect you and your fish keeping.
 
I'm not a fan of blanket bans either, once big brother gets involved things can get goofy, but the alternative ain't exactly working either.

In my country, many/most Provinces restrict the purchase of commercial farm fish, trout, salmon, even tilapia, are permit only, which is issued by the Fish & Wildlife. If you can't prove to a fish dick that you have the proper set up to house the fish, no permit is issued.
 
This is where we differ. I want the best for you in your country as well. I don't want my decision to negatively affect you and your fish keeping.

I said my main focus. I can't control what happens elsewhere, I have very little if any control over what happens here in Canada. We can swap spit all day on a fish forum, but that won't change anything either. Like I said early on in this discussion, blame the morons of the world, they are the ones that cause bans to be put in place. In my life experience, it is these same uneducated "hobbyists", and I use that term very loosely, that have created this mess. I don't want to see massive sweeps involving restrictions, permits, or bans, but unfortunately the common sense approach that Frank would like to utilize hasn't worked in several decades.

While I like to think globally, in the end my main focus is what's going on in my country. I have zero control over what's happening, or may happen in the future, somewhere else.
 
J jaws7777 - that was me being civil. Does the truth hurt? .
What truth are you speaking ?


Myself and RD have explained this several times.
Not really what your saying is why it should be implemented. I want to know stan is what will it do for the cause ?

Humor me.

Little johnny wants an arapaima. Dad takes him to the lfs. To poor Johnny's dismay none are available. Now what happens in your opinion at this point ?
 
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