why are VIP REDS illegal in U.S.?

[wizzin]

the asian arowana is illegal to bring into the US from Canada because of customs. when you have to go through customs, they search your packages (especially ones that are taped shut). If an endangered species is found they are confiscated and you are arrested because you had an endangered species without a permit. However, if you have a friend on CITES or the US fish and wildlife, and can get a permit, well thats a whole nother story. But for most of us, thats a fantasy. As for why they are illegal, its because their wild breeding populations are very low, and as anybody will tell you arowana's arent the easiest to breed. If any condition is slightly wrong, the male will probobly swallow the babies and there goes a whole generation. So if you want to help get Asian Arowana's in the US get a permit, start a breeding facility, and try and get a permit to sell them (again....good luck).

Please don't post things like this if you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[cichlaguapote]

the asian arowana is illegal to bring into the US from Canada because of customs. when you have to go through customs, they search your packages (especially ones that are taped shut). If an endangered species is found they are confiscated and you are arrested because you had an endangered species without a permit. However, if you have a friend on CITES or the US fish and wildlife, and can get a permit, well thats a whole nother story. But for most of us, thats a fantasy. As for why they are illegal, its because their wild breeding populations are very low, and as anybody will tell you arowana's arent the easiest to breed. If any condition is slightly wrong, the male will probobly swallow the babies and there goes a whole generation. So if you want to help get Asian Arowana's in the US get a permit, start a breeding facility, and try and get a permit to sell them (again....good luck).

Good story..

Wizzin.. good info.. Zoodiver as well..

 

[Polypterus]

Also, Lacey Act doesn't matter if the animals are acquired legally. i.e. You legally purchase an arowana in Canada then drive into the US.

This is not actually true you would be in violation of the Lacey act if you brought the fish over the border willfully or Knowingly without claiming it.

ESA and Lacey would both work together in this case and you can be charged under both.

 

[D.Pulcher]

Thing that sucks is that the us has moronic laws. As said before the UK can get them and when i lived there i had a super red and a purple panda god it was awsome but had to sell them before coming back to the us.... still miss those fish.

 

[wizzin]

This is not actually true you would be in violation of the Lacey act if you brought the fish over the border willfully or Knowingly without claiming it.

ESA and Lacey would both work together in this case and you can be charged under both.

lacey act is triggered if you illegally acquire an animal, but you are right, you can be charged under both, if you break a federal law by acquiring the animal. By transporting a fish you acquired legally in canada to the US, you are breaking the ESA, and therefore could be charged under Lacey as well, but Lacey is NOT why the Asian arowana is illegal in the US! Get my point?

Also, in the cases where this has happened, the offenders were charged under the ESA, period.

The trial was scheduled after Gomez, 25, pleaded not guilty on July 19, before U.S. District Judge Dennis Hubel. A federal indictment alleges that Gomez and Joe Lian Ho Luah of Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, conspired to import and sell the endangered fish, illegally transported them into the United States in violation of the Endangered Species Act, and falsified documents in an attempt to pass through U.S. Customs

also

In September 2001, a San Francisco Bay Area man who pleaded guilty to an Endangered Species Act count for smuggling live Asian arowanas was fined $6,000 and placed on probation for one year. The man sent a package containing three of the protected fish from Hong Kong to himself under a fictitious name using an address in Oakland, California. After observing the man pick up the package during a surveillance, agents served a search warrant to retrieve the fish and other evidence.

 

[Polypterus]

Lacey is NOT why the Asian arowana is illegal in the US! Get my point?

It is well known (well by some) that this is the case and ESA is the primary law that restricts possession and trade of Asian arowana in the US..No arguments there . I'm personally not sure why so many think CITES and Lacey have much to do with that.

What I'm saying though is that the Lacey act gets triggered and can be used if you do any of the following: import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase any fish or wildlife or plant taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law, treaty, or regulation of the United States or in violation of any Indian tribal law;
(16 USC 3372.1)

It does not matter that the fish was Legally obtained in another country, when you possess and attempt transport of it into the US you do violate both laws.

The lacey act is not always triggered by just the Illegal acquiring of an animal it is triggered as soon as you violate any federal, state or international law. This is what gives this act it's teeth..

This is a very important part of this act to understand.

ESA has stricter penalties and this is usually why Lacey is not used in prosecution of endangered species cases but it does not mean it can't. In some pleaded cases involving endangered species Lacey was used for the penalty rather than ESA.

The two laws are very intertwined.

 

[Onion01]

Originally Posted by cjack
the asian arowana is illegal to bring into the US from Canada because of customs. when you have to go through customs, they search your packages (especially ones that are taped shut). If an endangered species is found they are confiscated and you are arrested because you had an endangered species without a permit. However, if you have a friend on CITES or the US fish and wildlife, and can get a permit, well thats a whole nother story. But for most of us, thats a fantasy. As for why they are illegal, its because their wild breeding populations are very low, and as anybody will tell you arowana's arent the easiest to breed. If any condition is slightly wrong, the male will probobly swallow the babies and there goes a whole generation. So if you want to help get Asian Arowana's in the US get a permit, start a breeding facility, and try and get a permit to sell them (again....good luck).

 

[wizzin]

It is well known (well by some) that this is the case and ESA is the primary law that restricts possession and trade of Asian arowana in the US..No arguments there . I'm personally not sure why so many think CITES and Lacey have much to do with that.

What I'm saying though is that the Lacey act gets triggered and can be used if you do any of the following: import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase any fish or wildlife or plant taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law, treaty, or regulation of the United States or in violation of any Indian tribal law;
(16 USC 3372.1)

It does not matter that the fish was Legally obtained in another country, when you possess and attempt transport of it into the US you do violate both laws.

The lacey act is not always triggered by just the Illegal acquiring of an animal it is triggered as soon as you violate any federal, state or international law. This is what gives this act it's teeth..

This is a very important part of this act to understand.

ESA has stricter penalties and this is usually why Lacey is not used in prosecution of endangered species cases but it does not mean it can't. In some pleaded cases involving endangered species Lacey was used for the penalty rather than ESA.

The two laws are very intertwined.

I agree. they are very intertwined. I just hear people saying that the Lacey act is why formosus is illegal in the US, when I haven't found one case of any individual being prosecuted under the Lacey act for importing an arowana. I have, in contrast found numerous cases where people have been prosecuted under the ESA.

While what you're saying is correct, and you could be prosecuted under both, it's not relevant to Asian arowanas. That's what this thread is about right?

If you show me one case where someone was prosecuted under the Lacey Act for a violation involving an Asian arowana, then I'll show you 20 that weren't. You have to screw up pretty bad for the Federal government to throw the book at you. Now, if you ran an illegal wildlife trafficking ring and got busted, you probably would get nailed under both laws, and probably other laws too.

 

[Zoodiver]

Very bluntly, CITES has NOTHING to do with why Scleropages Formosus are illegal in the US!!!!!. and the Lacey Act has very little to do with it either. If you purchase an arowana in the US, you are breaking the ESA. Lacey would come into play if you were to ILLEGALLY acquire the specimen in contradiction to a state, or foreign law.

Very bluntly CITES DOES have a heck of a lot to do with making asain aros illegal in the US. Aside from having an endangered species, you would also have an App I animal without a proper permit. Having the animal in the US automatically makes it aquired in the US illegally (no matter how it got here), which qualifies it under the Lacey then as well. Same animal, multiple laws broken.

 

[wizzin]

Very bluntly CITES DOES have a heck of a lot to do with making asain aros illegal in the US. Aside from having an endangered species, you would also have an App I animal without a proper permit. Having the animal in the US automatically makes it aquired in the US illegally (no matter how it got here), which qualifies it under the Lacey then as well. Same animal, multiple laws broken.

Ok, so if we didn't have the ESA, and you got a CITES permit to import an Asian aro, would you be breaking any laws?

BTW. as I already said, a CB aro from a registered farm is classified as App.II. Also, buying an aro in Canada does NOT require a CITES permit. IMPORTING an asian arowana into Canada DOES, so if you went to Big Als and bought an aro, then drove to the US, you wouldn't be breaking any CITES laws, now would you?