Why can't ai keep Royal Plecos alive??

[The True Guapote]

I'm kinda hesistant to jump in here but I will anyway. If you do your research you'll find Royal Plecos almost feed entirely on wood, therefore you should have copious amounts of driftwood available to them. Crushing up cichlid pellets isn't going to cut it nor is dropping in somekind of sinking wafer. You're best to target feed these guys. I had several royals in my 75 including L091 and L330 and I fed them nightly a diet of zuchinni, cucumber, sinking algae wafers, squash, and again TONS OF driftwood. You seem hesitant to tell us about your tank, I find it interesting you said you added 4 dozen small fish in addition to 12 plecos?? What size tank did you add 48 fish to and not expect something bad to happen? What kind of temperature do you keep the tank at and do you have adequate aeration? When I was keeping royals I had them with Cichla so my tank temps were 84f+ and I had tons of aeration in addition to about 8 pieces of drifwood in a 75. I buy the Malaysian stuff from my lfs and they definitely turned it into sawdust...

 

[mcsnapper1]

You can increase your chances by getting a Royal that has been at the FS for awhile. I've heard the shipping during importing is rough on them. Check for a sunken stomach before purchase. Don't buy it if it looks "skinny".

 

[scorp]

Driftwood. Driftwood. Driftwood. More driftwood. Repeat.

+1

If it is a nutrition issue, there is only this one answer. Cucumber and such is a nice addition, but they NEED proper wood. You can also use dried oak branches and a lot of other kinds of wood. Do some research.

 

[Oddball]

On the driftwood issue, plecs don't derive nutrient from the wood itself. They derive nutrients from the simple sugars expelled from the bacteria that are decomposing the wood.
My large titanic ground through up to 6 pounds of driftwood per week. His waste looked like a clydesdale used my 650 as a litterbox.

 

[ecoli73]

I have a tiny(3-4inch) titanic right now for a month or so...I don't notice wood loss yet though he eats through his share of zucchinis...how does one determine we have the right type of wood in the tank?

 

[Jackson]

Good luck you will need it or should I say the poor little Panaque you buy will need it.

 

[Jc1119]

You added 12 royals and 4 dozen small fish at the same time? Aside from not having enough pieces and different kinds of driftwood and not addressing the fact that they are mostly vegetarians, adding that many fish at one time is asking for trouble--- and please don't say your acclimation procedures are good---- Obviously somethings a miss.

I usually qt wild caught fish for at least 2-3 weeks before introduction to the main tank. Firstly, they can cope with the stress of shipping better in isolation. Secondly, I can treat specifically for parasites, which I believe alot of wild caught plecos fall victim to. Stress=susceptibility to illness. Catching methods and shipping is nothing but stress.... I turn the heat up to about 86-88, feed medicated food, then fresh vegetables in the case of the L190's, then wait......

When they describe a loricariid as a wood eater, it doesn't mean a piece or two ..... It means lots, and as many different kinds as well. I keep 8 large pieces in one tank, and 6 in another. Woodeaters need alot of wood to graze on, and not all like the same kind. They ll eat whatever you give them, but they do have preferences towards types, just like any other fish does with food..... But royals need lots for food.... And a good bit for cover as well

The other issue is adding a lot of fish at the same time.... Most plecos are super sensitive to ammonia and nitrite.... Especially wild caught since they never experience any in their natural environment..... I've been fishkeeping for a long time, but I'd he hard pressed myself to not have spikes, adding that many fish into my most established tank at the same time. Especially when you consider each plec places a pretty heavy load on your system.... massive amounts of waste if healthy and eating well.... Poop machines

Yours had sunken bellies. Most will fatten up if you feed them specifically. Lots of wood and lots of veggies= happy royals

 

[Jer]

The reason I didn't get into other parameters because it's not as important since I have had great luck with this specific aquarium in it's current setup for over a decade now. I'm very picky about aeration, filtration, water cleanings, water changes, temperature and water conditions so I don't feel as though I need a lesson in this. The proof is the fact that I have dozens of fish thriving and this includes a dozen or so plecos. If I had lots of fish dying or even ANY fish dying I would take the time to post all of that & welcome input but to be honest I don't see it's necessary and don't want to lose focus on how royals differ from the other fish that are doing just fine since that's where the solution lies. Basic science will tell you to rule out the variables and the easiest way is to figure out the differences between the fish that are dying and the fish that aren't and I think we've concluded it's diet. I was aware there was a difference in diet but I guess I didn't realize how different it was which I've realized is the key. I read that 'Royals liked wood' but I wasn't aware just how much this meant and clearly I wasn't meeting the requirements or the wood I had wasn't sufficient for their needs. I also wasn't feeding veggies near enough as I would slice up a cucumber every now and then but didn't feel like either of these needed to be a daily staple to their diet. It's pretty obvious that the other plecos I have don't require this as often so that's why they're all healthy with the limited wood/veggies that I have been giving. It's clear I need to focus my research on wood and veggie feeding of plecos before I attempt to add more. I thank everyone who added helpful information for their time and not assuming I'm just some moron who bought a tank last Tuesday who needs every single aspect of his setup scrutinized. I've been doing this for over 25yrs now and have had great luck in doing so but for some reason this one specific pleco had eluded me and it was a bit of a pride swallowing experience to post publicly to ask those who knew more about this specific pleco to try to gain helpful knowledge so I can in turn learn as well. I think that my research has now been focused and that's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

 

[matubula]

If you are confident that your tank, water, setup etc is not the problem, then I think this might be it.

You say you ordered them online. This is the first problem as you can't know what condition they are in or how stable they are, it's just the sellers word. So if the fish are newly imported or suffering otherwise, you are already off to bad start, as the stress of travelling to you will only exacerbate problems. Next time I would try one from a LFS that you trust and try and choose a well fed, settled, healthy fish.

So now the fish is in your tank, you need to get it feeding. Like others have said, wood is major part of their of their diet, so you need to provide as much (but nothing too hard like Mopani). Like Oddball said, it's not the wood they're eating, as such, it's organisms that live in and on it that do all the hard work digesting the wood and then the Panaque eat these organisms, and also ingest large amounts of wood. But in most aquariums you won't have enough wood for this. So you need to supplement their diet with foods primarily like vegetables (sweet potato, courgette, carrots, swede, brocolli etc) and flake/wafer food.

 

[Jer]

If you are confident that your tank, water, setup etc is not the problem, then I think this might be it.

You say you ordered them online. This is the first problem as you can't know what condition they are in or how stable they are, it's just the sellers word. So if the fish are newly imported or suffering otherwise, you are already off to bad start, as the stress of travelling to you will only exacerbate problems. Next time I would try one from a LFS that you trust and try and choose a well fed, settled, healthy fish.

So now the fish is in your tank, you need to get it feeding. Like others have said, wood is major part of their of their diet, so you need to provide as much (but nothing too hard like Mopani). Like Oddball said, it's not the wood they're eating, as such, it's organisms that live in and on it that do all the hard work digesting the wood and then the Panaque eat these organisms, and also ingest large amounts of wood. But in most aquariums you won't have enough wood for this. So you need to supplement their diet with foods primarily like vegetables (sweet potato, courgette, carrots, swede, brocolli etc) and flake/wafer food.

Yeah, I'm pretty confident that I'm good w/my parameters.

I realize this is less than ideal but sourcing royals local just isn't an option. In the decade I've lived here I've seen ONE at a LFS and I bought him after he sat in there for about three months. When I got him home I noticed almost immediately that his entire scraper on the one side of his mouth (I don't know the exact terminology of this but it's a modified tooth that is used for scraping algae) was missing and so I knew I was in trouble. He didn't last too long after that and I was able to exercise my return policy but it took months for them to order me another. When they finally got it in it was nowhere near as healthy as the first one I bought and I knew it wasn't going to end well. Same with his replacement and after almost a full year of trying I gave up because they were just ordering unhealthy plecos from questionable sources so I felt bad for them. I gave up for quite some time and then I began asking various local shops if they could order me some and all would make promises and none would ever deliver. I recently had to almost completely restock my tank (power loss caused me to lose almost half of my tank overnight... also why I'm trying to acquire parts now to be able to better survive a power failure) and in ordering the shipper had royals at a great price so I was excited to try again. I had some friends that wanted some as well so I ordered extras. The plan was for them to get them from me but when they started dropping I told them to hold off while I determined if it was a parasite or what because I didn't want their fish to get sick too if this was the case.

Bottom line is that I really do think that I made every effort to care for them properly and genuinely thought that I was based on everything that I had read. I wish the things I read had made more of an effort to emphasize the importance of drift wood. The forums I read said that 'they liked to much on wood here and there' which to me doesn't sound like a life sustaining requirement. My question here is wouldn't boiling the wood also kill whatever it is that the royals get in the way of nutrients from the wood as well? I need to know where I can get wood from (assuming mine is no good) w/o spending a fortune and how to prepare it for best results for the royals. I also need to feed veggies more often and I'm glad to read they like sweet potatoes and broccoli and such because I love veggies and those are two that I eat a lot of so I have it in the house regularly. Before I had seen LFS feed cucumbers so on occasion I would buy one or our family who has gardens would bring them to us and i would cut one up from time to time to give as a treat. I never realized it was a necessity. I also don't eat cucumbers myself so I didn't have them in the house as often. I will plan to feed raw sweet potato regularly though. I assume at night is the best time since that's when plecos are the most active? I can throw some veggies in at night when the light turns off. I tried the algae wafers and gave up because it seemed like the other fish liked them even more than the plecos.